Specialist System in 3.0

[GenJoe]

In our current crafting circumstances, its HQ or bust; NQ items (with the sole exception of supra tokens and furnishings), are typically worth less than the materials used to craft it (even when it comes to glamour on my server...an arachne robe can cost 1mil when it uses at least 1.3mil in mats).

I'd say the craft would have to be HQ to be considered successful...

In a market, where there's no personal distinction, that randomness is what keeps people apart. It's the only thing keeping you afloat over another person who does not know what he's doing..

You can still nq due to bad RNG, sure... but that rare loss should be infrequent enough to make your money.


With something like an Arachne Robe, you're not really seling the finished product as a secondary producer of goods. You're actually the primary harvester of materials, that just refines it into an item with wider market audience and faster turnover.. i.e. People selling Arachne Robe may just be someone who happened to get the mats from running coils and had some extra sol left over, then figured might as well get rid of'em for some profit. As somebody who buys mats from the MB, you won't be able to compete with them..

[scarebearz]

For folks criticizing ZephyrZ's post, bear in mind that he's not saying that those level 50 cross-class skills aren't insanely useful, just that they're not NECESSARY. Not having them will reduce your success rate, but not eliminate it. Though, by that same token, I'd bump his suggestion that BB is "necessary" down to "Nice to have". After all, you can complete even Masterbook II's without it - you just won't ever make it higher than 20% quality rate, barring an insane string of Goods or Excellents (and maybe not even then).

(I'd also personally swap Ingenuity II and Careful Synthesis II in his list of priorities; the former just isn't useful after 2-star, and 2-star can easily be completed without it and for the latter, well, a powerful, guaranteed Synthesis move is so very nice to have, especially if you're not sure you're going to have Steady Hand available at the end of the synth. That's just me, though...)

It's evident that he knows how to endgame craft, and well enough that he knows what things COULD be sacrificed in a pinch. It's obvious that having all crafts to 50 is the best way to go in the long run - but it's not the only way.

To be a successful as a 4* crafter several level 50 skills are "NECESSARY".

We can argue about what "successful" means, but when people come to me asking for crafts they want HQ, not an "I'll try my best and cross my fingers".

[Twilite]

Well more information on this was already posted on the 11th. The specialist system from what Yoshida says, will not actually be a restriction on how many lvl50 crafts you have. It will address the issue of having to level all of them, just to make high level crafts. You still however have the option to take them all to 50. If anyone caught that, my bad, but somehow I missed it myself.

Now to speculate on what that "special actions" will be. Probably a way to do a craft as say, GSM that would require BSM and ALC leveled, but instead wont have to, or something.

A new system called “Scrip” will be added in 3.0. Up until now, Disciples of the Land and Hand had to meld their gear if they wanted to partake in high-level gathering and crafting. However, with the “Scrip” system, you will be able to trade them for new gear. Therefore, Disciples of the Land and Hand will no longer be forced to meld their gear. Players who wish to stay ahead of the pack will still be able to meld their gear. Those who meld their gear will be able to craft faster than those who collect gear through the “Scrip” system. The main point of this system was to offer multiple ways to upgrade gear.

Q8: Can you tell us the details of the specialist system?

A8: The specialist system is a new system for Disciples of the Hand, and you’ll be able to undertake a quest to become a specialist from level 55. It’ll be possible to become a specialist in three classes of your choice. By using “scrips” you’ll be able to change which classes you specialize in afterwards. By setting a specialist class, you’ll be able to learn special actions. Currently, in order to make some of the higher difficulty recipes, there is a necessity to level various classes for their actions, and we feel that the difficulty has spiked a bit. We plan to improve this through the specialist system, so you can think of this system as something that will allow you to broaden your options by either playing as the classes you really like or enabling you to use all of the classes.

[LineageRazor]

To be a successful as a 4* crafter several level 50 skills are "NECESSARY".

We can argue about what "successful" means, but when people come to me asking for crafts they want HQ, not an "I'll try my best and cross my fingers".

You're thinking like a commercial crafter, one who's serious about crafting and devotes a large percentage of their game time to it.

Any crafter that's planning on cutting corners like this is not planning on being a Marketboard shark, or shouting for customers in Mor Dhona, or any of those things. They want to be able to craft a few items for themselves, maybe put things occasionally on the marketboards for a bit of spare change here and there.

For THESE people, being able to craft HQ 100% of the time is not at all necessary, as long as they can get that one HQ after a couple tries they're satisfied. For such people, most, if not all, of the level 50 cross-class skills are a luxury, not a necessity.

If someone tells me, "I want to be a Weaver cuz sleepwear is stupid expensive and I want to make my own. What's the minimum amount of work I need to make that happen?" I know that I'm not dealing with someone who's planning on becoming a textile mogul.

[RiceisNice]

You're thinking like a commercial crafter, one who's serious about crafting and devotes a large percentage of their game time to it.

This is more or less the scope of the discussion though. Right now, a lot of items are straight up worthless as NQ to the point that it's HQ or bust (especially the offhands and platinum accessories). If we're going with bare minimums, sure, but you'd still need something like PbP for some of the furnishing recipes, and you'd have to forecast whether or not you can finish a craft with only the default synthesis abilities.

[GenJoe]

The specialist system from what Yoshida says, will not actually be a restriction on how many lvl50 crafts you have. It will address the issue of having to level all of them, just to make high level crafts.

That was the stated intent from the very beginning... but I'll believe it when I see it.
In the mean time, I'm still working on my alt.. worst comes to worst, I'll have a secondary crafter with 3 more desynths and a name tag that'll be harder to trace back to my name on the MB..

[scarebearz]

I thought the wording of my post made it clear what type of crafters I was talking about? :S

For THESE people, being able to craft HQ 100% of the time is not at all necessary, as long as they can get that one HQ after a couple tries they're satisfied. For such people, most, if not all, of the level 50 cross-class skills are a luxury, not a necessity.

These are the type of people who attempt 1 4* craft and fail badly due to lack of gear, cross class skills or poor rotation.

They then spam forums like this saying how bad the "RNG" is in crafting.

[ZephyrZ]

I can't believe how dense you both are. First off, one of the first 4 star crafters across all servers and had all 8 lucis within 24 hours of release. I been crafting while you were still in your mothers womb sucking your thumbs. Walk before you run.

Have you done any 3-4★ crafting? You need a good amount of IQ stacks to be able to get a good rate of HQ for high level crafts. PbP, inno, CZ and CSII are also pretty damn essential; even if you start at 394 CP, thats nowhere near enough if you have to use up more steps for progression and less for quality.

You need a minimum of 9 and with a solid rotation you should rarely if ever get less than that. 11 is ideal and easy as well. If you had read my post, i mentioned pbp being essential. However innovation is not because most of the time a GS + BB is your finisher, chances are you won't even have the cp for an inno. CZ is a great skill but is in no way necessary. Two cz's per craft is roughly 1 lost ToT. On the other hand, CSII is a waste of a cross class in most cases because there is no difference between 120% and 100% progress gained when you complete the synth in the same number of steps, make sure to run your synth under stead hand like you normally would.

I'm assuming this is if you don't want to do anything higher than 2*, unless you are saying it's a good idea to do Mastercraft II books without Reclaim and with PbP and Comfort Zone being optional. How are you building IQ stacks for your Byregot's? Basic Touch 11 times?

Silly silly child, the point is that they aren't necessary. The rotation isn't as optimized for master books 2 but it can stiill be done regardless. 7 steps, comparerd to 6. 5x RS + 2x SS. You can get master book 2 without reclaim, won't be cheap but it can be done.

The whole topic was about what is essential to reliably craft 3 and 4 star. The only esssential skills are level 15, 37 and bb at 50. There are already several RS rotations that you can look up if you can't figure it out yourself that complete 4 star synth in 5 or 6 steps. You can use RS to gain most of the progress and finish with BS & SS. The essential crafting skills that we use such as Master's Mend 1 and 2, GS are available to every class.

Naturally the more cross class skills you obtain, the more wiggle room you have but that in no way makes them essential. Blood for blood, lets you put out a lot more damage but that in no way makes it essential to being a good dps or even hit the dps checks required for fcob. It lets you hit above the dps check but that doesn't make it essential, it makes it a nice to have and makes u a successful dps.

For unlocking Master II books PbP is pretty much essential, unless you want to waste a lot of mats.

For my Alt, I waited until I had Carp, Arm and Alch 50 (cul 37 and rest 15) before unlocking the master II books, I was using the quest mainhand tool and easily got 3HQ before I made 5 NQ (for supra).

So I think I could have done them without Alch 50, but could not have without Byregot's and PbP. (though I agree PbP is not needed for "normal" 3*/4* crafts, but you need to unlock 4* first xD)

If people already have their Supra tool, Reclaim makes a lot of sence.

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I am not arguing that to be a successful crafter, you need all of the cross class skills. In fact i leveled them all to 50 back in 2.0 days. Profit is important and popularity is built over time.

[scarebearz]

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I was only talking about the tokens to be honest, as those need to be unlocked in the first place.

To reliably HQ those I do think PbP and Byregot's are essential. (along with sh2 and some l15 ones ofc)

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

[scarebearz]

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.