Specialist System in 3.0

[ZephyrZ]

I can't believe how dense you both are. First off, one of the first 4 star crafters across all servers and had all 8 lucis within 24 hours of release. I been crafting while you were still in your mothers womb sucking your thumbs. Walk before you run.

Have you done any 3-4★ crafting? You need a good amount of IQ stacks to be able to get a good rate of HQ for high level crafts. PbP, inno, CZ and CSII are also pretty damn essential; even if you start at 394 CP, thats nowhere near enough if you have to use up more steps for progression and less for quality.

You need a minimum of 9 and with a solid rotation you should rarely if ever get less than that. 11 is ideal and easy as well. If you had read my post, i mentioned pbp being essential. However innovation is not because most of the time a GS + BB is your finisher, chances are you won't even have the cp for an inno. CZ is a great skill but is in no way necessary. Two cz's per craft is roughly 1 lost ToT. On the other hand, CSII is a waste of a cross class in most cases because there is no difference between 120% and 100% progress gained when you complete the synth in the same number of steps, make sure to run your synth under stead hand like you normally would.

I'm assuming this is if you don't want to do anything higher than 2*, unless you are saying it's a good idea to do Mastercraft II books without Reclaim and with PbP and Comfort Zone being optional. How are you building IQ stacks for your Byregot's? Basic Touch 11 times?

Silly silly child, the point is that they aren't necessary. The rotation isn't as optimized for master books 2 but it can stiill be done regardless. 7 steps, comparerd to 6. 5x RS + 2x SS. You can get master book 2 without reclaim, won't be cheap but it can be done.

The whole topic was about what is essential to reliably craft 3 and 4 star. The only esssential skills are level 15, 37 and bb at 50. There are already several RS rotations that you can look up if you can't figure it out yourself that complete 4 star synth in 5 or 6 steps. You can use RS to gain most of the progress and finish with BS & SS. The essential crafting skills that we use such as Master's Mend 1 and 2, GS are available to every class.

Naturally the more cross class skills you obtain, the more wiggle room you have but that in no way makes them essential. Blood for blood, lets you put out a lot more damage but that in no way makes it essential to being a good dps or even hit the dps checks required for fcob. It lets you hit above the dps check but that doesn't make it essential, it makes it a nice to have and makes u a successful dps.

For unlocking Master II books PbP is pretty much essential, unless you want to waste a lot of mats.

For my Alt, I waited until I had Carp, Arm and Alch 50 (cul 37 and rest 15) before unlocking the master II books, I was using the quest mainhand tool and easily got 3HQ before I made 5 NQ (for supra).

So I think I could have done them without Alch 50, but could not have without Byregot's and PbP. (though I agree PbP is not needed for "normal" 3*/4* crafts, but you need to unlock 4* first xD)

If people already have their Supra tool, Reclaim makes a lot of sence.

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I am not arguing that to be a successful crafter, you need all of the cross class skills. In fact i leveled them all to 50 back in 2.0 days. Profit is important and popularity is built over time.

[scarebearz]

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I was only talking about the tokens to be honest, as those need to be unlocked in the first place.

To reliably HQ those I do think PbP and Byregot's are essential. (along with sh2 and some l15 ones ofc)

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

[scarebearz]

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

[ZephyrZ]

I was only talking about the tokens to be honest, as those need to be unlocked in the first place.

To reliably HQ those I do think PbP and Byregot's are essential. (along with sh2 and some l15 ones ofc)

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

I just tested making the Reinforced Spruce Plywood HQ, got it on 2nd attempt. Used level 15 and 37 cross class skills. All progress came from RS & SS, finished was 11 stacks, GS, Good condition and BB. 87% HQ chance. The first attempt only failed because i wasn't sure how much progress i would get from Basic Synth and Standard Synth, i ran out of steps and didn't get enough progress to finish the synt. Overall took 7 progress steps with 453 craftmanship. It was harder to drop my craftmanship from 495 to 453 than to make an HQ token mat lol ^^

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

Nice to see you tested it as well, i tested it myself first before i had posted it on the forum. I didn't use all hq mats, i had about 1200-1400 starting quality depending on the synth and i finished with GS + BB, but AT would have probably worked as well, can't say for sure.

Edit: All of this testing reminds me of day 4 star release. Makes me wonder what the craftsmanhip needed to do 3 star in 4 progress steps.

[Lemuria]

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

That would depend on your actual stats though. If you've got some insanely well melded artisan gear and Lucis tools, you're going to have an easier time than someone who's at entry level for 4-star crafts. Even with full HQ materials, some struggle to get a HQ result on 4-star.

Also, does that lack of level 50 skills also mean no Careful Synthesis II? That means each synthesis either has a chance of failure, or a lower efficiency rate. Or both. Careful synthesis is only 90% efficiency, while basic and standard synthesis come with a 10% failure rate. Seems like a heavy burden to place yourself into. And no Piece by Piece to speed things up either.

[GenJoe]

That would depend on your actual stats though. If you've got some insanely well melded artisan gear and Lucis tools, you're going to have an easier time than someone who's at entry level for 4-star crafts. Even with full HQ materials, some struggle to get a HQ result on 4-star.

Also, does that lack of level 50 skills also mean no Careful Synthesis II? That means each synthesis either has a chance of failure, or a lower efficiency rate. Or both. Careful synthesis is only 90% efficiency, while basic and standard synthesis come with a 10% failure rate. Seems like a heavy burden to place yourself into. And no Piece by Piece to speed things up either.

There IS a Careful Synth I. Most of the time, I or II won't make a difference in the number of steps to finish.

Also, entry level 4 star gear/meld is more than plenty to hq 4 stars.. In fact, the recipes already require 407 control, control cap is only 440, and that is if you bother to meld off hand to cap, most don't and leave it at 426. The 19 control doesn't make that much difference, the reason entry level 4 star crafters have trouble hq'ing is because of rotation, or just really bad luck.
I said really bad luck, it requires a lot of it to nq a 4 star recipe starting with hq mats..

[scarebearz]

That would depend on your actual stats though. If you've got some insanely well melded artisan gear and Lucis tools, you're going to have an easier time than someone who's at entry level for 4-star crafts. Even with full HQ materials, some struggle to get a HQ result on 4-star.

Also, does that lack of level 50 skills also mean no Careful Synthesis II? That means each synthesis either has a chance of failure, or a lower efficiency rate. Or both. Careful synthesis is only 90% efficiency, while basic and standard synthesis come with a 10% failure rate. Seems like a heavy burden to place yourself into. And no Piece by Piece to speed things up either.

To be honest, if people are struggling to HQ with All HQ Mats and level 50 skills, they are crafting very badly. Lucis actually makes very little difference, the min stats needed for 4* are already very high.

I used SH2 + RS for most of the progress and finished using CS (lvl15 version).

[ZephyrZ]

To be honest, if people are struggling to HQ with All HQ Mats and level 50 skills, they are crafting very badly. Lucis actually makes very little difference, the min stats needed for 4* are already very high.

I used SH2 + RS for most of the progress and finished using CS (lvl15 version).

Necro!!! You mean to tell me that the lucis tool isn't glamor??? and serves an "actual" purpose??? =D

Having said that, lucis is unnecessary and meant for casuals not hardcore crafters. Why do i say this?

1) Meant to allow for unmelded offhand
2) All the mats come from leve's and GC trade in.

It adds absolutely nothing when it comes to progress quality.

Oh but the extra craftsmanship!!! Well if you already have 453 before lucis, then seeing as you don't save a step it's pointless.
Oh but the extra control!!! Well if you couldn't HQ without the additional 16 control, then it sure won't make much of a difference anyways.

Personally i like my luminaries more than my lucis =D

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Back on topic tho, i have so many questions how leveling is going to work from 50-60 because they have to cater to both new and old crafters. I'm more interested in what we're going to use in terms of mats. A hardcore crafter will be able to 50-55 in every class within 12-18 hours i think and 55-60 within 6 hours. Assuming that they don't care about price of new mats. I can easily see the race for 8x60 being less 24 hours long.

Just some stats for people. It's about 88 crafts for every 5 level, regardless of if it's 15-20 or 40-45. I don't expect that to change.

[MN_14]

It adds absolutely nothing when it comes to progress quality.

Oh but the extra craftsmanship!!! Well if you already have 453 before lucis, then seeing as you don't save a step it's pointless.
Oh but the extra control!!! Well if you couldn't HQ without the additional 16 control, then it sure won't make much of a difference anyways.

Pretty much. I only had 451 craftsmanship before the upgrade, so I benefited from it.
Other than that, I think it boosts your HQ% by around 8% at IQ11.

[Xenosan]

I'm more interested in what we're going to use in terms of mats. A hardcore crafter will be able to 50-55 in every class within 12-18 hours i think and 55-60 within 6 hours. Assuming that they don't care about price of new mats. I can easily see the race for 8x60 being less 24 hours long.

Just some stats for people. It's about 88 crafts for every 5 level, regardless of if it's 15-20 or 40-45. I don't expect that to change.

Could be possible Demimateria will be required, as it has been with Artisan leftside & token MH turn-ins.. It's the only material of financial signficance.. And Desynthers need be thrown a bone, especially since otherwise practically all demand for FC3/MC is going to die the moment people find they can leapfrog Artisan, Masterbooks, MH etc