It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Tiggy]

This argument makes very little sense in the competitive environment. Considering groups have downed things like T13 in 110 soldiery gear, it's proven already that unless your going for World Firsts, which I'm very sure most of the posters in this thread are not and didn't accomplish such, this doesn't affect you via Pay 2 Win.

My group just downed T13 for the first time 2 weeks ago. I can assure you we aren't so good to do it in 110 gear or even 120 gear. Most of us are 130 and we beat it with 2 seconds until enrage. There is no way we'd beat it with 110 gear and I guarantee you most groups are the same way. So please try to remember that just because .0001% of the players are capable of doing it in 110 is NOT in any way shape or form proof that ANYONE can do it in 110 gear and therefore your entire assertion is completely flawed at it's core. You don't balance MMOs around it's most extreme minority of highest skilled players. That should be obvious.

[Havenchild]

My group just downed T13 for the first time 2 weeks ago. I can assure you we aren't so good to do it in 110 gear or even 120 gear. Most of us are 130 and we beat it with 2 seconds until enrage. There is no way we'd beat it with 110 gear and I guarantee you most groups are the same way. So please try to remember that just because .0001% of the players are capable of doing it in 110 is NOT in any way shape or form proof that ANYONE can do it in 110 gear and therefore your entire assertion is completely flawed at it's core. You don't balance MMOs around it's most extreme minority of highest skilled players. That should be obvious.

Entirely why you shouldn't be complaining about it. Those same people who are capable of buying this gear, doesn't necessarily mean they can down it. You had better gear then crafted and just coming off your statement, you barely beat it at 130. Hence why, even if you had crafted gear to begin with, you wouldn't have made it anyway. Again how does this affect you, when like you say, aren't in this low percentage of top tier players?

If you couldn't bring out the best in the gear to accomplish these feats, then you are not affected by others doing so unless of course you were aiming for world firsts, but if you were doing as such, then you would already have this gear.

The burden of proof is on the people trying to sell this to us.

Ball's in your court, friend.

The burden of proof is on the wall actually. An alternative way of purchasing a subscription.

The top argument against this, is P2W, when in fact the only thing you can currently P2W is getting crafted gear, or buying coil runs, unless you would mean winning more minions from MB.

The better argument would be against inflation but that's not something that would enter into the mix (which people seem to be thinking) this late in the game as it is already in the game.

Inflation would result from direct purchases of gil from RMT tell bots, which I already stated would need to be regulated much more harshly for something like this to work. Those who already buy gil, would still buy it, just now for this new purpose which btw is more then likely a very stupid idea, as RMT pricing would more likely result in more money paid to actually buy this Plex-style item on the market vs just paying a subscription for 12.99

At current on my server, RMT is shouting 1m for 3USD. My question to you would be do you honestly feel players would sell this item for under 4.25m?

The rest of the arguments here? Pretty baseless and hold little weight to what's already currently happening / happened in game.

[Tiggy]

Entirely why you shouldn't be complaining about it.

Never did. Simply refuting your ridiculous assertion that somehow the fact people did in 110 makes this not p2w. Nothing you just said in this response justifies it either. Just because a few people can do it in 110 does not justify your assertion. The minority does not dictate the whole.

[Havenchild]

Never did. Simply refuting your ridiculous assertion that somehow the fact people did in 110 makes this not p2w. Nothing you just said in this response justifies it either. Just because a few people can do it in 110 does not justify your assertion. The minority does not dictate the whole.

If the people in this thread insist that some sort of over arching advantage is given to the people who are capable of purchasing crafted gear in terms of completing content, I will arrive at the point with examples we all know exist, that is not true.

Everyone is capable of doing the same content without crafted gear, using this argument is really a crybaby mentality and that's all it ever will be. Many groups were already on T12 the first week with mostly soldiery gear (that's only about 4 peices of loot. Were we the elites? NOPE just competent players with good raid awareness. Those that were on T13 first week? Those were your elites and they did have crafted.

You are correct, the minority shouldn't dictate the whole and yet it still does. (IE: Balance changes are tweaked around coil, not general gameplay through dungeons.)

However the minority that can actually benefit from crafted gear exclusively because it helps them push past what the current gearing can give them? Those people have no affect on you, no matter how much you try to say so.

Unless you are competing in the World First environment, someone else buying crafted gear never affected you.

Besides the majority of the complaining to complain forum players not wanting it?

Fixed.

Forumers are the minority actually.

[Tiggy]

Those people have no affect on you, no matter how much you try to say so.

Please, continue thinking I'm arguing your point when all I did was point out your fallacy. I don't really care what people do or don't have uses for 130 gear. That's outside of the scope of this thread entirely. You're building a strawman to distract me from the focus of the thread which is about a plex system. Not the gear people need/use for what content. That's a distraction.

Fixed.

Don't make up statistics, put them in someone else's sentence, and act like you fixed it. You didn't. You're making up stats completely without any basis in reality.

[Havenchild]

Please, continue thinking I'm arguing your point when all I did was point out your fallacy. I don't really care what people do or don't have uses for 130 gear. That's outside of the scope of this thread entirely. You're building a strawman to distract me from the focus of the thread which is about a plex system. Not the gear people need/use for what content. That's a distraction.

Also I love to hear what is Pay 2 Win in this game. Buying Coil runs? Buying crafted gear, that usually can be made if you had the materials / classes? I never understood this crafted gear argument when most people who are actually good on there classes can play better with less gear then those who are buying this stuff and those that already play good on their classes and got crafted gear, would have likely beat whatever content anyway with the current gear..

This argument makes very little sense in the competitive environment. Considering groups have downed things like T13 in 110 soldiery gear, it's proven already that unless your going for World Firsts, which I'm very sure most of the posters in this thread are not and didn't accomplish such, this doesn't affect you via Pay 2 Win.

My group just downed T13 for the first time 2 weeks ago. I can assure you we aren't so good to do it in 110 gear or even 120 gear. Most of us are 130 and we beat it with 2 seconds until enrage. There is no way we'd beat it with 110 gear and I guarantee you most groups are the same way. So please try to remember that just because .0001% of the players are capable of doing it in 110 is NOT in any way shape or form proof that ANYONE can do it in 110 gear and therefore your entire assertion is completely flawed at it's core. You don't balance MMOs around it's most extreme minority of highest skilled players. That should be obvious.

You are trying to counter my point of saying it is possible, by deliberately mentioning how your group struggled and you wouldn't have been able to do so.


My original point is countering the misconception that players are getting an advantage via Pay 2 Win which many are misusing in this thread. I then ask, Pay 2 Win at what? Coil? Crafting? Gearing? I've stated plenty of how you actually don't get an advantage in any of these, as the same content has been tackled with gear that's widely available to the playerbase already.

Others being able to buy crafted gear is not an argument as to how this is in fact Pay 2 Win by supporting this type of game subscription purchase. All of this is connected to this thread and not a strawman as people keep using Pay 2 Win as a counter to this subscription model. If you're going to use straw manning, use it correctly.