It's time to reevaluate the idea of adding a PLEX/Chronoscroll-like system to FFXIV

[Tiggy]

Wait, what exactly do I have to prove?
My point here is really, really simple: There's nothing inherently wrong with giving people with less free time the opportunity for them to participate in content they're denied of (housing, crafting). And I'm calling out those elitists who think are entitled to their exclusivity just because they spent more time playing.

Why does that need "proving"?

Because, and there are pages of this now. People disagree with you. I know. It's tough to see that since you don't appear to read each post carefully.

Also, since it's you pushing the idea the burden of proof falls on you to justify it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philoso...urden_of_proof

The philosophical burden of proof or onus (probandi) is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position.

Simply put if you aren't going to try and prove it then you've said enough. You spoke your opinion. We all heard it. If you aren't actually furthering the conversation other than restating your same opinion repeatedly with no further proof then you literally are not helping to further the conversation. You're just restating opinion over and over and over again. Without more facts or evidence to add to the discussion we you don't need to say your opinion again. Ever. We got it the first dozen times.

My point here is really, really simple: There's nothing inherently wrong with giving people with less free time the opportunity for them to participate in content they're denied of (housing, crafting). And I'm calling out those elitists who think are entitled to their exclusivity just because they spent more time playing.

This right here would be fine if that was all you were saying, but it hasn't been for this entire thread. Don't try to retcon all your posts now with some broader argument about accessibility that barely applies here. You're just putting this statement up as some strawman to be knocked down so that you can try to call people elitists for knocking it down. This thread is about a PLEX system and EVERYTHING that means for the game. Not just that jimmy-to-broke-to-play can finally log in. Focus up and focus your message.

Well he kinda have a point as with 80 selling slots you have the potential to crash sertain item prices with mass flooding, when undercutting war starts buy everything then withdraw your flood items and skyrocket prices again.

You still have to be able to supply the items to even sell. Meaning you had to farm them first. Those 80 slots didn't farm the goods which is the real money.

This might not work when doing alone but if you have a "cartel" then its alot easier.

How would that be any different than even if we only had 2 retainers? Many players working in concert would still be a problem since you'd have 40 slots for each person in the cartel, and you'd still have to farm up enough items to even fill that many slots.

I'm sorry but this hardly convinces me that retainers make people rich. They made themselves rich through their own actions Having 80 slots vs 40 didn't farm up all that loot.

[Duuude007]

And I'm calling out those elitists who think are entitled to their exclusivity just because they spent more time playing.

Wait, such a thing exists?

What can a person access who plays 'unemployed' that a full time employed parent cannot?

The answer is nothing.

More time simply means they can do the same stuff longer, and therefore can earn more of what either group can already access.

That is not 'entitlement', that is honest work for honest pay.

[Jinko]

This is a bad idea.

[Magis]

Wait, what exactly do I have to prove?
My point here is really, really simple: There's nothing inherently wrong with giving people with less free time the opportunity for them to participate in content they're denied of (housing, crafting). And I'm calling out those elitists who think are entitled to their exclusivity just because they spent more time playing.

Why does that need "proving"?

Another person acting like they are being denied stuff because you have to play a game to get the reward. Are you "denied" the ending of FFX because Seymour was too hard? No one is denied anything, everyone has the same opportunity to access content within the game rules. SE doesn't care that you have 10 jobs, 20 children, and 12 lives... they care about the limits within the game.

"Man, SE is denying me the end game dungeons cause I have to level up. Freaking elitists level 50s think they are entitled to their exclusivity just because they leveled their characters."

"Man, SE is denying me a chocobo cause I have to be level 20. Freaking elitists level 20s think they are entitled to their exclusivity just because they got to level 20."

"Man, SE is denying me access to the game cause I have to pay a subscription fee. Freaking elitists who can afford the sub that think they are entitled to content."

Your argument doesn't make sense.

[AlexionSkylark]

Snip.

Now THAT'S a really nicely constructed strawman. I'd congratulate you if it wasn't such a low blow.
And there'd be nothing wrong with someone buying up a high lvl character too, BTW. Like you can already do for some time in World of Warcraft, BTW.

[DoctorPepper]

lol been a while since I've gone through this thread but took another gander and something I keep seeing brought up as a PLEX defense is that it would allow people who don't have time to play the game to buy housing. I think that is an absolutely terrible arguement and calling people who actually play elitests is even worse. Not everybody who plays the game a lot has a big ego and goes around trying to ruin others' experiences.

The reason I think that housing is a terrible defense is because we already have a major lack of housing plots available for people who actually play this game. There are some servers with people who have legitimately saved the gil for a house but cannot get one because there aren't any available.

Adding a PLEX system will make that situation even worse because there will be a higher demand for housing due to people having more gil. In the end the people who actually put in the work would get screwed over and you would end up with people who barely play taking housing plots that they didn't earn themselves.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is nothing more than legitimate RMT. It is 100% pay to win and I will never support this type of system. I'm a legacy player, I've been playing this game since 1.0 Alpha and again since the 2.0 Alpha, I love this game a lot but I will quit if they ever add a system like this and that's not a joke. People can go ahead and say I'm only one person so it won't matter but I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't be the only one taking a leave from this game if they added a PLEX system. Sure, others will probably replace me but I doubt they'll all be supporting the game for as long as I have.

[Gilraen]

Actually... even though it's not expressly stated, we DO have PLEX now. They are called Time Cards, cost $30 and the codes are easily traded via /tell. "But that's a tangible thing and people could easily scam you." This is true of PLEX trading. Especially if done through a contract (i.e. player to player trading). You also have people 'monetizing' the wedding rings, last I heard the $20 ring was going for around 2-3 million gil. Or was that the $10 ring... Either way, money-to-gil methods exist that are entirely player run. This is what Square is trying to avoid, player-based economies. You can see that in how all the best gear is gained by participating in content. EVE is the opposite, almost in entirety. Players run EVE, end to end almost, and making sure it stays player-run CCP instituted methods of monetizing time. This helps keep the EVE economy squarely in player hands.

The only reason to have more time on your account in XIV, though... is more time and veteran rewards that are locked to the account they are gained on making them unmarketable (except that one painting whose value has tanked because it's a furnishing). There is also the fact that you NEED a subscription to even play whereas in EVE you can play for your entire life without ever subscribing. The makes time in EVE profitable while in XIV it's just time on top of time you've paid for already.

[Tiggy]

Now THAT'S a really nicely constructed strawman. I'd congratulate you if it wasn't such a low blow.
And there'd be nothing wrong with someone buying up a high lvl character too, BTW. Like you can already do for some time in World of Warcraft, BTW.

That's not a straw Man. It's an example of how the same line of logic you used doesn't make sense. He's applying the same logic to other situations to show you how flawed it is in the first place. It wasn't an argument to be beaten down which is a requirement for a straw Man.

Also, hahaha that it's ok to buy fully leveled characters. "WoW did it" is a VERY poor reason to justify letting people skip through half of the game. It's also a great way to have level 50s that literally know nothing about their class which I submit as one wrong thing with that system so you're flat out wrong saying there is nothing wrong with it.

Why play the game of you don't want to do anything but throw real money at our to skip most of the features? What's the point? To show how big your real life wallet is?

[Fyce]

Now THAT'S a really nicely constructed strawman. I'd congratulate you if it wasn't such a low blow.
And there'd be nothing wrong with someone buying up a high lvl character too, BTW. Like you can already do for some time in World of Warcraft, BTW.

Why should you be able to skip something others have put time, effort and dedication into, just by using real world money, in a virtual MMORPG?

It's just like saying "I don't have the time for all that bullsh*t, so take my money and give me everything the others have".

It's okay to buy some boosters and stuff in Candy Crush if you really want to beat a level for which you don't have enough time to spend trying it again and again... but in a subscription based MMORPG where real world social status and choice of life should be irrelevant? No, and it seems very wrong just to think about giving this kind of power only to the people who can afford it with money.
This is exacly why people hate Pay to Win based MMOs.

Your real life problems and available time should be dealt by you, and you only. They should not affect how a social game like a MMORPG is designed.
Deal with that stuff by yourself. Don't blame the virtual world for not adapting to your real life. Because if it was the other way around, it would create inequalities.

[Havenchild]

This thread: People still using Pay 2 Win as an excuse to prevent a system like this coming to FFXIV.

Pay 2 Win already exists in the form of RMT tells. Move along now, if people were buying gold before they would still buy gold now. The people who haven't bought gold yet would probably be as fearful to still retain that stance as now we are talking about account time purchases which directly deal with SE's money (so to speak)

Also I love to hear what is Pay 2 Win in this game. Buying Coil runs? Buying crafted gear, that usually can be made if you had the materials / classes? I never understood this crafted gear argument when most people who are actually good on there classes can play better with less gear then those who are buying this stuff and those that already play good on their classes and got crafted gear, would have likely beat whatever content anyway with the current gear..

This argument makes very little sense in the competitive environment. Considering groups have downed things like T13 in 110 soldiery gear, it's proven already that unless your going for World Firsts, which I'm very sure most of the posters in this thread are not and didn't accomplish such, this doesn't affect you via Pay 2 Win.

The inflation that people claim can come is already in play in current economies, which enters from unchecked RMT from non-SE illegitimate sources. (IE: The Real Problem preventing something like PLEX from working here.) They would REALLY need to be on the accounts buying gold from outside sources moreso then what they currently do.

Can it work in FFXIV? Of course it can. Doom-sayers turn everything down regardless.

Will it work in FFXIV at current? Not yet because as I'm sure many have seen, some known Gold buyers are still running around like nothings gonna happen to them. We would need SE to prove us wrong on that front first.

Why should you be able to skip something others have put time, effort and dedication into, just by using real world money, in a virtual MMORPG?

This is a misguided look on virtually anything that doesn't involve buying direct equipment that's already the best end all gear which is not true in FFXIV.
As to answer your question, it really depends on what is being glossed over here.

Are you talking about the monotonous grind many have been put through for ages having to deal with terribly long cues in the process to even progress? Yes a character jump helps with that. It helps even new players get into the mix and not have to trudge through content years old that are weighed down by the inactivity due to the content being out of date.

Are you talking about crafting / gathering classes? So a person gets to lvl 50 on crafting? What have they learned from this level boost? How to craft? Proper rotations? Who is losing in this situation exactly, the people who want to make money off these people for a little longer?

This time and dedication argument is up to the player. If they don't want to waste time, a lvl jump is not only a personal decision but often a welcomed one amongst veterans players and WoW, a subscription based game, has proven this. Some players had the argument it was unfair, while many more supported Blizzards decision and bought many of these jump characters, myself included. The game has not suffered because of it.