Ironworks Fishing Rod

[liev]

Okay, we’ll start here:

Again, shouting and highlighting things in red does not help the cause of your arguments here what-so-ever.

Your refusal to actually acknowledge any counterpoints that have been brought up and instead repeat yourself doesn’t help your argument. Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you, even still, have ignored.

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Actually with the lucis coming after the foragers gear, its the lucis that is not needed to gather the new nodes for miner and botanist.
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Here is a link, please look at the section that gradiated the difficulty of ALL the big fish in the game and what is needed to catch them. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-is-it-%29%29
Please note, at no time is anything higher than the supra rod needed to catch the big fish in this game. Following your logic of the miners and botanist tools, then your entire argument is, in your own words, moot. The ironworks rod was never ever ever needed to catch any of the fish in this game.

1. It’s common knowledge that the Lucis tools are not necessary for any of the nodes or fish currently in the game. They are obviously intended to prepare us for the future. Thanks for reminding us.
2. This is proof only that the Ironworks Rod was replaced before it ever served an actual purpose. You’re right, the rod is moot. The entire argument is that rod is moot and that it shouldn’t be.

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It is still not the case, no matter how much you shout and highlight things in bright red, that the ironworks is the equivalent of the foragers offhand tools.

Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you refuse to acknowledge, even still.

That Fisher had to actually work, and work hard, for the new rod is just a testament to the fact that the rod should've at least had a unique appearance if its use was going to be limited to a single major patch. Supra lasted two patches and was necessary to progress to the Lucis. Ironworks, again, much harder to get than Lucis, is just left floating useless for any purpose other than "retainers!"

This remains true whether you agree with the offhand tools and Ironworks being comparable or not.

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your refusal to acknowledge that the ironworks rod is still useful, which it is, even with the lucis in the game. Others have pointed out this as well, that they still have used for their ironworks fishing rod.

This has been addressed four times. Four times.

Considering how difficult and time consuming the rod is to get, having its usefulness reduced to merely extra rods for retainers after a single major patch is pathetic.

And even if you want to stick to your "but retainers!" argument, that's pretty pathetic for the effort required.

Ironworks, again, much harder to get than Lucis, is just left floating useless for any purpose other than "retainers!"

"You can buy additional Ironworks Fishing Rods for your retainers from the Calamity Salvager for 4800gil."

1) You could also buy additional Halcyon Rods and do another Lucis for your retainer. You could do 2nd and even a 3rd extra Lucis before you approach the equivalent of completing the Ironworks Rod. It's 33 fish for each additional Lucis. 33, 66, 99, 132. To get Ironworks Rod you need to catch 104 additional unique fish (you caught Silver Sovereign and Olgoi-Khorkhoi already).
2) Considering how difficult and time consuming the rod is to get, having its usefulness reduced to merely extra rods for retainers after a single major patch is pathetic.

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Please check the previous discussion, i have never said that the ironworks was not had work. Never.

Please check the previous discussion. I have never said or implied that you said the ironworks was not hard work. Never.

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What i have argued is that the lucis going through all the stages when they were currently released was also time consuming. … The arguments put forward from you is that the lucis rod is not hard work to get.

Thanks for the recap. I haven’t been reading. Apparently, you haven’t either though.

The only thing I've said is that Lucis is easier to get. Now, hopefully you can understand that 30 HQ clams is easier than 104 more unique fish with time, weather, weather transition, and mooches. I didn't downplay the process of getting a Lucis because it's the exact same process as getting an Ironworks Rod until the last part. I've said that Ironworks Rod is harder to get meaning that catching 30 HQ claims is literally nothing compared to 104 unique fish. This isn't a hard concept.

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The argument put forward by myself is that 2-4 ironworks rod are easier to get for your retainers than 2-4 lucis rods. Please re-read the previous posts.

I’ve already explained why this is not the case unless you already have the Ironworks Rod. Please re-read the previous posts.

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Would you like the foragers fishing rod to be upgraded as well? That took time and effort (most people reporting 30+ hours) and was made obsolete as soon as the supra was released. It too should be upgraded to the highest level possible in an arbitrary manner since that hard work has just been undone.

Unlike the Ironworks Rod, the Forager’s Rod actually had a time when it was exceptionally useful. It was not made obsolete when the Supra was introduced because it became a necessary step in progressing toward Supra. Only after obtaining the Supra was it obsolete. Ironworks Rod, however, is hardly necessary to get the Lucis.

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Lets now take the example of other achievement items in the game. The Master series of rings, obtained as an achievement reward like the ironworks fishing rod, were introduced in patch 2.16. At this time i90 rings were exceptionally easy to obtain. But these rings are only i55, and they dont look good either. Shall we start a petition to have these arbitrarily boosted ilvl to match an ilvl of our liking? Also they are not good for glamour, so i want them overhauled, using devs time and resources, so they look as good as my liking.

1. These rings were obviously introduced with fresh 50s in mind. They are not hard to get.
2. You love to toss around the word logic. Here’s some logic for you.

Irrespective of not "being a stand out title" it is, non the less a very rare title.

Irrespective of the rings not “looking ‘good’” they are, nonE the less very unique in appearance and unlike any other rings.
The Ironworks Rod, however, looks like basically every other rod in the game with the exception of Halcyon Rod variants.

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Maybe you can use your ironworks rod and glamour the lucis tool to it? This way you get to show off that you have the ironworks rod to anyone who examins you avatar whilst fishing and you get to have it look good and dye it. This may be a good solution to your problems.

Use the inferior tool. Excellent solution. (Edited because I misread this).

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Now, if you would be so kind, stop responding.

You are obviously satisfied with the Ironworks Rod as it is. You've made this clear. As is evident by the fact that you've done nothing but repeat yourself, you've nothing worthwhile left to contribute to the discussion. Move on.

[DarkmoonVael]

Okay, we’ll start here:

Your refusal to actually acknowledge any counterpoints that have been brought up and instead repeat yourself doesn’t help your argument. Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you, even still, have ignored.

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1. It’s common knowledge that the Lucis tools are not necessary for any of the nodes or fish currently in the game. They are obviously intended to prepare us for the future. Thanks for reminding us.
2. This is proof only that the Ironworks Rod was replaced before it ever served an actual purpose. You’re right, the rod is moot. The entire argument is that rod is moot and that it shouldn’t be.

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Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you refuse to acknowledge, even still.


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This has been addressed four times. Four times.





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Please check the previous discussion. I have never said or implied that you said the ironworks was not hard work. Never.

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Thanks for the recap. I haven’t been reading. Apparently, you haven’t either though.


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I’ve already explained why this is not the case unless you already have the Ironworks Rod. Please re-read the previous posts.

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Unlike the Ironworks Rod, the Forager’s Rod actually had a time when it was exceptionally useful. It was not made obsolete when the Supra was introduced because it became a necessary step in progressing toward Supra. Only after obtaining the Supra was it obsolete. Ironworks Rod, however, is hardly necessary to get the Lucis.

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1. These rings were obviously introduced with fresh 50s in mind. They are not hard to get.
2. You love to toss around the word logic. Here’s some logic for you.

Irrespective of the rings not “looking ‘good’” they are, nonE the less very unique in appearance and unlike any other rings.
The Ironworks Rod, however, looks like basically every other rod in the game with the exception of Halcyon Rod variants.

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Use the inferior tool. Excellent solution. (Edited because I misread this).

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Now, if you would be so kind, stop responding.

You are obviously satisfied with the Ironworks Rod as it is. You've made this clear. As is evident by the fact that you've done nothing but repeat yourself, you've nothing worthwhile left to contribute to the discussion. Move on.

I have been engaging in the discussion, it is your issue if it is not what you want to hear. Raging at someone since they have a different opinion to you is not particularly, how should i put it, noble.

The fact that you can not accept this is an achievement reward, and not, as you put it, the equivalent of the foragers off hands, is the crux of this matter. If you go to the calamity salavager, it is listed in achievement rewards.

If this is how you wish to garner support for your request, you will be facing a very steep uphill battle.

You still have to explain how the ironworks is the same as the foragers gear, this is a main part of your argument. One that you have not answered to any satisfactory degree. If you could construct an argument why its necessary for a fisher to have a higher ilvl ironworks rod as part of the game, you would get support. The argument seems to be "i worked for this, its now the second best rod in the game, change it now SE"

Now perhaps stop shouting at people, stop demanding that they immediatly cease any discussion in a public forum in a thread that you created for public discussion.

[liev]

I have been engaging in the discussion, it is your issue if it is not what you want to hear. Raging at someone since they have a different opinion to you is not particularly, how should i put it, noble.

You've responded to actually nothing that's been written. You're just repeating yourself. Note that I've been able to respond to your new posts almost entirely in quotes from my own previous posts. Also, raging is laughable. Any stylized text was simply to emphasize points that have been repeated again and again which you have not once acknowledged.

The fact that you can not accept this is an achievement reward, and not, as you put it, the equivalent of the foragers off hands, is the crux of this matter. If you go to the calamity salavager, it is listed in achievement rewards.

1. I have not once failed to acknowledge that it's an achievement reward. It literally comes from an achievement...the calamity salvager need not be consulted.
2. The entire argument is that because this achievement is so hard to get the rod should either be better stats wise or be more unique in appearance.

You still have to explain how the ironworks is the same as the foragers gear, this is a main part of your argument. One that you have not answered to any satisfactory degree.

It is not a main part of the argument.
Forager's Offhands were only brought up in the first place because you insisted that no other class was graced with something special like the Forager's Rod. I do not agree with that sentiment, as I've already stated. This however bears little relevance to the main argument.
By your own admission, you view the rod as something special. My point from the OP is that it should remain special, if only in terms of looks. As of now, it is special in neither looks nor stats.

I've updated the OP to reflect this.

"Fisher is lucky to have gotten the Ironworks Fishing Rod. Miner and Botanist didn't get anything."

This is a red herring. If you're concerned with fairness to Miner and Botanist, make a separate suggestion thread. The point of this post is that fisher had to work, and work hard to obtain the rod. It is my stance that the rod should at least have a unique appearance if its use was going to be limited to a single major patch.

If you could construct an argument why its necessary for a fisher to have a higher ilvl ironworks rod as part of the game, you would get support. The argument seems to be "i worked for this, its now the second best rod in the game, change it now SE"

1. The OP.
2. Bold and red text obviously doesn't improve your reading comprehension. Let's try font size.

Either:
A) The Ironworks Rod should be made better than or at least on par with the Lucis. It's much harder & more time consuming to obtain, so the stats should reflect this. (Preferred)

B) (In light of how difficult it is to get) The appearance of the Ironworks Rod should be altered so that it is at least worthwhile as a glamour item. It's very plain and boring. There's nothing special about it.

C) Both!? I can hope!

Literally from the OP. Quoted more than once.

If this is how you wish to garner support for your request, you will be facing a very steep uphill battle.
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Now perhaps stop shouting at people, stop demanding that they immediatly cease any discussion in a public forum in a thread that you created for public discussion.

"Discussion"
That's laughable considering this entire thing can be summarized as
Me, in the OP: I think the Ironworks Rod should be either improved to reflect its difficulty to obtain in comparison to the Lucis, or that its appearance should be altered so that is worthwhile if only as a glamour item.
You: You're wrong.
Me: I disagree. Here are reasons why.
You: You're wrong. (the same points you already made that I already adressed)
Repeat the last two ad infinitum.

A "noble" move would've been to voice your opinion as something other than fact, which you have not done. You’re so full of yourself that you had the audacity to call your initial response an “answer” as if you work at SE.

You came here to argue, and you have done nothing but argue. You don’t get to act offended now because I called you out on it and asked you to stop. Now, I will not grace you with further replies.

[DarkmoonVael]

You've responded to actually nothing that's been written. You're just repeating yourself. Note that I've been able to respond to your new posts almost entirely in quotes from my own previous posts. Also, raging is laughable. Any stylized text was simply to emphasize points that have been repeated again and again which you have not once acknowledged.


1. I have not once failed to acknowledge that it's an achievement reward. It literally comes from an achievement...the calamity salvager need not be consulted.
2. The entire argument is that because this achievement is so hard to get the rod should either be better stats wise or be more unique in appearance.


It is not a main part of the argument.
Forager's Offhands were only brought up in the first place because you insisted that no other class was graced with something special like the Forager's Rod. I do not agree with that sentiment, as I've already stated. This however bears little relevance to the main argument.
By your own admission, you view the rod as something special. My point from the OP is that it should remain special, if only in terms of looks. As of now, it is special in neither looks nor stats.

I've updated the OP to reflect this.




1. The OP.
2. Bold and red text obviously doesn't improve your reading comprehension. Let's try font size.

Literally from the OP. Quoted more than once.



"Discussion"
That's laughable considering this entire thing can be summarized as
Me, in the OP: I think the Ironworks Rod should be either improved to reflect its difficulty to obtain in comparison to the Lucis, or that its appearance should be altered so that is worthwhile if only as a glamour item.
You: You're wrong.
Me: I disagree. Here are reasons why.
You: You're wrong. (the same points you already made that I already adressed)
Repeat the last two ad infinitum.

A "noble" move would've been to voice your opinion as something other than fact, which you have not done. You’re so full of yourself that you had the audacity to call your initial response an “answer” as if you work at SE.

You came here to argue, and you have done nothing but argue. You don’t get to act offended now because I called you out on it and asked you to stop. Now, I will not grace you with further replies.

The responses have been directly in regards to what you have written. It is quite clear they have been.

You call the ironworks the equivalent of the foragers gear the other gathering classes have, this is incorrect. I have argued that it is not, you have not shown any compelling arguments to counter this. As an achievement reward, it is highly unlikly that this is meant to have been a definative upgrade that will stay the BiS for fisher. We were lucky to have been given this in the first place when no other gathering classes were. The fact that you can not engage with this point other than saying its the equivalent of foragers offhands without any justification other that "it was released at the same time".

The fact that you have had to update the OP surely shows you that ther is validity in what has been said. Otherwise why do it. I am glad you have to claify your position. However it still stands that this is a unique reward given to fishers that the other gathering classes have not received. It is difficult to get, but you know, difficulty isnt always gradiated in terms of more difficult=better rewards.

You try to automatically take out one of the main arguments in your OP. However, just because you say you dont want this being considered does not mean you are automatically right. You are stating a premis of your argument, again, if you dont want people engaing with this then dont post on a public forum. My argument is, and has always been, is that it is a unique reward given to fishers alone. It was a reward that was very good when it was released, and it still has relevance. It does not need an ilvl upgrade due to the fact it still has relevance.

Just to make it more than abundantly clear, just because you have tried to take out a major part of the argument in your OP, it does not mean you are right and that it HAS to be ignored. The fact you made such an effort to state this in the first place means that you actually more than understand its relevance.

Now if you havent noticed (and you really havent), the argument is that since the ironworks still has relevance in the game, it does not need the ilvl boost that you are so adament that it needs.

Arguments have been constructed, it is not my problem at all if these can not be handled.