I think its time BRD get some loving

[Snugglebutt]

Of course they don't get a benefit from a debuff. No one does so that doesn't make sense to argue that point. It's not all about the debuff. It's not like you just get a debuff with nothing to show for it either. To ignore what a bard can do for the team is ignorant of what they bring to a party and ignorant of what they are capable of. Your suggestions would imbalance the game and are bad for the game. You clearly don't care about game balance. You clearly only care about your own epeen.

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

[JayCommon]

I disagree, there may be outliers or some who do extremely good damage but those few do not make up a vast majority of people who play bards.

Then all of those Bards should strive to be better players, instead of making random suggestions on the forums about how the Job is lacking.

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

But the few and the 'outliers' are the ones who are performing their jobs correctly. The changes that all of you want to incorporate make those "few" actual good players way too overpowered (in regards to the WD as well as the song penalty)


We had the WD before. That was nerfed already because people were going into Titan HM (when it was relevant content, we are talking avg ilvl ~55-60) with 5 bards because they did enough damage to warrant not even having a limit break. 5 bard heart burn was disgusting. The WD will not be given back to us.

Everyone keeps making such a big deal about the damage penatly during song as well, when most of the people advocating it are outright confessing that songs aren't even used that much. If this penalty was removed, it would cascade into "we need more buffs because removing the penalty from songs wasn't good enough".


So in conclusion...



Your main argument here is that 95% of Bards that play suck at their job, so they need to be buffed because the players are bad?


Such logic...no wonder my static PLD told me when we first started raiding together: "I wish all Bards could play like you"

[Aerowaffle]

At this point, especially since the game developer has advocated against dps tracking, why is it such a big deal to have high damage output on all dps classes?

If the things die, then the goal is achieved. Bard helps the group through various utility (mana song, tp song, and emergency rez level 3 limit break in a pinch if healers have died). Bard also has the advantage that we're both mobile damage (no cast times besides songs) and we're ranged, so Bard can be applying damage at more times then any other class.

A dps contributing to the group does not always have to be in pure damage output.

[Tiggy]

At this point, especially since the game developer has advocated against dps tracking, why is it such a big deal to have high damage output on all dps classes?

Just because they advocate not using dps tracking doesn't mean they are so ignorant to think people don't use them and to design the game in a way that ignores them. Also, more damage means bosses die faster making coil and other tough content even easier. The class imbalances exist for reasons.

[Snugglebutt]

Just because they advocate not using dps tracking doesn't mean they are so ignorant to think people don't use them and to design the game in a way that ignores them. Also, more damage means bosses die faster making coil and other tough content even easier. The class imbalances exist for reasons.

Every single patch with new gear or debuffs for old content invalidates that as a viable excuse because content is constantly and rapidly becoming easier with patches and new content. To say you need to keep the debuff so mobs won't die too fast is like telling SE to stop creating new levels of gear or new content that contains boss tweaks or echo. The fights are not easier to balance with the debuff and all that content is made easier regardless of having the debuff or not due to the ever increasing gear and boss nerfs. If anything (to me) it makes balancing even harder having to take into account a fairly worthless variable (debuff) that the teams and individuals would be better off without.

[Kuwagami]

Your basing your principle of balance on what a few are capable of in your comment and not what the majority are doing. A game should be balanced for the majority and not the few or the outliers. So to me you care less about balance than I do because your coming at it in a flawed way.

be honest please. Everyone should be able to equal the top players (or at least do 80% of their work) if they tried it hard enough. But they don't. Because modern MMO players do not give a fuck about working toward something. They are happy enough if things die before them, even if that means they were carried hard by people who worked to be better.

Every single patch with new gear or debuffs for old content invalidates that as a viable excuse because content is constantly and rapidly becoming easier with patches and new content. To say you need to keep the debuff so mobs won't die too fast is like telling SE to stop creating new levels of gear or new content that contains boss tweaks or echo. The fights are no harder to balance without the debuff than they are with it and all that content is made easier regardless of having the debuff or not due to the ever increasing gear and boss nerfs.

way to miss a point. Every patch with new gear or nerfs to the content comes with new bleeding edge content, thus making your point invalid. Obsolete content has no reason to remain difficult, hence why balance isn't required anymore in it. On the other hand, top content that is actually relevant is always well balanced.


I'm starting to think that you either don't know anything about what you're trying to argue, or you just ran out of arguments and continued just to try to have the last word

[Snugglebutt]

be honest please. Everyone should be able to equal the top players (or at least do 80% of their work) if they tried it hard enough. But they don't. Because modern MMO players do not give a fuck about working toward something. They are happy enough if things die before them, even if that means they were carried hard by people who worked to be better.

The primary target audience of this game is not the elitists and minority top end players, it is the medium level of commitment and casual crowds that the game caters to more so than the hardcore, just because there is a small amount of hardcore content does not mean all content in the game is or should be designed for or balanced for that crowd. The game should not be balanced for the top 1% of players, it should be balanced for the remaining 99% so saying just because know a few bards whom do amazing DPS does not mean the game should be balanced for those, in my opinion it should be balanced for the majority who do not fall into that top 1% category.

[Sessurea]

What would be the point of the tp system, if one class could just sort tp of whole party with little penalty.

Paeon isn't meant to be played all day, it's just there to tie you over until invigorate comes off cd. get your mellee to communicate with as when they don't need ur paeon any longer. Like this, there is very little affect to to overall dps of a 10 minute fight .

[Snugglebutt]

Come on lol, it isn't like we sing paeon all day. U just sign in the time it takes for invigorate to come off cd. Even with this, bards do very good dps. I think sumoners are in desperate need of changes

I see no reason why SE cannot remove the %damage debuff on bards for songs at same time as increasing the DPS for lancers and fixing summoners. I do not think has to be one thing or the other, they can do all three things in my opinion. Our resource management as bards is not limited to TP, it is also MP so the resource management will not vanish just because of no %damage debuff on songs. I am constantly having to switch between different songs during long fights due to various needs of people present, MP management is quite high up on the agenda in my experience.

[SinisterIsBack]

Come on lol, it isn't like we sing paeon all day. U just sign in the time it takes for invigorate to come off cd. Even with this, bards do very good dps. I think sumoners are in desperate need of changes

Exactly, so why have the debuff at all? Removing it will not cause a balance issue to the game or mechanics or pure dps jobs. To sit and think that people will stack 4 bards because of the removal of the debuff is quite silly. There is nothing to gain from it, what? playing ballad all fight? Waste. Play paeon all fight? Waste. Foes all fight? oh wait, there is no debuff on that.

There is no point in having it anymore, truly there isnt. Maybe on first coil when bards WERE OP? Sure but since the balance pass, there really is no need for it as its not going to increase dps by THAT MUCH.

It wont trivialize content, bards will still play songs when it best suits the party.