I think its time BRD get some loving

[StrejdaTom]

Guess I just manage to hit crap melee's then that I often end up on top of DPS enmity(or right after) or when parsed am top or second. Frankly I don't see a need for a straight up buff. And I do want to see what we're getting in 3.0 but am sad that we are losing the heal LB - it saved more than one run in it's time.

On EM primals, dungeons etc.. it is easy to be top dps even as a BRD. On FCOB with static it is imo a bit harder, as people usually pull out the max out of them. Anyways if you parse as a top or a second in FCOB with a static, it might be a time for other DPS to reconsider their rotation.

[Fatshine]

Guess I just manage to hit crap melee's then that I often end up on top of DPS enmity(or right after) or when parsed am top or second. Frankly I don't see a need for a straight up buff. And I do want to see what we're getting in 3.0 but am sad that we are losing the heal LB - it saved more than one run in it's time.

Saved my static tonight and we got our first T10 clear together. I have a love/hate with Bards. I love them when they play songs correctly, clutch LB3, and do respectable damage. I hate them when they die to AOE's being the most mobile job, don't sing, or do shit damage. I mean seriously, FOE Requiem doesn't even hurt your DPS. Why NOT play it often? In dungeons? Or elsewhere? Ughh. I LOVE good Bards. Please be my best friend. The other 99% of Bards need to stop being bad.

[BigPapaSmurf]

Swiftsong should be Battle-Voicable.

Would make for some interesting flag-plays in Frontlines.

Would be nice for Hunt-rushing & open-world parties/solo.

[ruskie]

On EM primals, dungeons etc.. it is easy to be top dps even as a BRD. On FCOB with static it is imo a bit harder, as people usually pull out the max out of them. Anyways if you parse as a top or a second in FCOB with a static, it might be a time for other DPS to reconsider their rotation.

Yeah sadly due to timing and real life issues and finding decent replacements my team is still in T9(though at 20% so just one more rotation to get through and done - hoping for tomorrow).

Saved my static tonight and we got our first T10 clear together. I mean seriously, FOE Requiem doesn't even hurt your DPS.

Hehe. I don't get to play Foe much in our static. We're double bard, monk and dragoon with the other tank dragooning when not needing 2 tanks. And congratulations on the clear. But yes I see it often when a bard won't sing anything.

[rappa]

snip

The situation is...keeping a support class on your party is a dead weight.

Turn 13 and talking to parsing dps.

- Mnk: 550
- drg: 540
- blm: 525
- brd: 450
- nin: 545

All same gear and skill, and affected by the same numbers of mechanics.

Without bard dps and bringing another one, you can skip more mechanics,so you can't run of tp because P3 is reached more fast and your tp is recovered before you starved. A good white mage can handle his mana without spamming useless cures.

I killed turn 13 with my bard and i hadn't play any song, only Foe requiem at start and after 2nd divebombs when twintania land.

Each patch, our WD is nerfed and other dps scale well. If SE doesn't change that, maybe the difference between others dps and bards will be 100 dps or more. And the support class would be not necessary

[Kuwagami]

Bard's dps didn't prevent to clear T13. If you are short on dps, you might look at the group in its entirety

[Snugglebutt]

Just remove the %damage debuff that comes with songs, their removal will not turn BRD's into DPS kings, it will not even have that great an effect overall and other classes will still have their DPS boosted by our songs while ours are not boosted but also not debuffed while boosting everyone else's. Quite frankly there is no good reason to debuff our DPS even more so than the low end DPS we have in general just because we play songs that boost other peoples DPS.

The boost of other peoples DPS through songs is more than enough to push theirs higher than our own without the further needs to debuff our own while boosting theirs. Stop being so paranoid about some miracle advantage that doesn't exist and will not exist without the debuff, without the debuff you still get boosted from the songs above and beyond most BRD's DPS output it just means BRD's would not be doubly punished for giving you that advantage.

If you whine about how some BRD's don't play songs much then you should be in favor of removing the debuff because that debuff is nothing more than a punishment on BRD's for doing something that helps you and not ourselves. More BRD's would be willing to play songs more often if they removed the pointless and over-the-top punishment we get for boosting your DPS above our own with the songs in the first place.

It will not boost our own DPS to a vast degree and most BRD's will still not come close to top tier of DPS output but as long as BRD's are being punished for helping you then you will continue to run into BRD's offended and unwilling to help boost you because they are being punished for doing so on top of the punishment we already suffer from lower DPS quality gear and damage output from skill stats.

[Lethorian]

The situation is...keeping a support class on your party is a dead weight.

Turn 13 and talking to parsing dps.

- Mnk: 550
- drg: 540
- blm: 525
- brd: 450
- nin: 545

All same gear and skill, and affected by the same numbers of mechanics.

Without bard dps and bringing another one, you can skip more mechanics,so you can't run of tp because P3 is reached more fast and your tp is recovered before you starved. A good white mage can handle his mana without spamming useless cures.

I killed turn 13 with my bard and i hadn't play any song, only Foe requiem at start and after 2nd divebombs when twintania land.

Each patch, our WD is nerfed and other dps scale well. If SE doesn't change that, maybe the difference between others dps and bards will be 100 dps or more. And the support class would be not necessary

The funny thing about all of this is your post shows parses for all DPS jobs except one, I mean hell, at least BRD is still considered a job. SMN is in some deep doodee and most definitely needs some love before BRD.

The thing about an MMO is there are a TON of voices stating opinions on different aspects of this game and one thing a lot of people wanted was a support role, the thing is this game's system doesn't support that so this was a compromise that was made. BRD falls behind a bit in DPS, sure, but they bring utility and are far from broken and are always sought after. Final Coil was cleared in a week or so after release and I don't recall any groups running without a BRD so I just can't get behind a statement that says BRD need a buff. So far out of all DPS jobs there are only 3 that are not considered "essential": SMN- who people will actually refuse to bring and I actually had to switch my main from due to the weight they brought into a party with their MP management, then you have DRG and NIN- who are for the most part interchangeble and groups will generally go for one or the other after the recent DRG buff.

Some fights seem to favor one job over the other, and with a new DPS coming out in 3.0 another job is going to get the bump, it happens in MMOs. I personally had to deal with this in final coil, and more people will deal with this issue in the future. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if people end up maining 2 jobs and gearing them steadily at the same pace in order to switch from fight to fight for utility/higher numbers/what ever is needed.

[Gallus]

You can't buff a class that is already mandatory on 99% of the endgame raids. What would that accomplish? Making it even more mandatory?

[Snugglebutt]

You can't buff a class that is already mandatory on 99% of the endgame raids. What would that accomplish? Making it even more mandatory?

It's not a buff when asking for a debuff to be reduced or removed. A buff is going above and beyond a baseline, a debuff is forcing something below that baseline. All the removal of the debuff or lowering of the consequences for the debuff does is merely bring something back up to the baseline and not boosting it above aka not a buff. Lets not forget the songs themselves buff everyone else above that baseline, there is no reason to debuff the caster/user for giving everyone else that advantage when even without it our DPS would rarely be near the top of the DPS charts for (most) BRD's.

It would not make them more or less mandatory in any sense whatsoever by removal of the debuff as they are brought along not for their DPS overall but for the boost to everyone else's DPS and survivability. If it was for the DPS as a major factor then that spot would not be filled with a BRD with or without that debuff, it is for the songs and as it stands currently the only person who suffers from the songs is the BRD and no-one else because they are being punished for helping everyone else whom they are boosting.

To me anyone who is arguing for the continued debuff is selfish, they benefit from the bards songs yet want to keep punishing the bard for helping and boosting your survivability and DPS. It comes across to me like "help boost and buff us bard but haha, f*** you bard for doing so." I personally am not asking for a buff, I am asking to decrease or remove the debuff, there is a big difference between those two things but the impact of that difference is not on everyone else or the current state of the game, it only really impacts the bard him or herself. Remember also the debuff only takes place when boosting others during songs, the rest of time the debuff is not applied so you will not have much of a difference overall without the debuff on the group dynamics.