I fear for Summoner

[Lavieh]

We can't really afford to be afraid of what changes may come. People who main or have mained SMN are the ones that are crying out. We love the class the way it is and I don't think hardly any of us want to have bigger pets or want the class to dynamically change. But people really have to band together, SMN mains need to cry out for the buff aswell, otherwise it will fall deaf to SE's ears.

We just want to fit into the Meta. SMN's are by no means in the position that DRGs are in, and they are by no means a liability but they just aren't a good option. They need a single target DPS boost, their mana problems addressed and better itemization choices.

[Brianmj]

We can't really afford to be afraid of what changes may come. People who main or have mained SMN are the ones that are crying out. We love the class the way it is and I don't think hardly any of us want to have bigger pets or want the class to dynamically change.

There are three groups of Smns right now. Those that raid and are unhappy with the job's performance in FCoB, those that are unhappy with the gear choices in 2.4, and those that are completely unhappy with the job itself - it doesn't mesh with what they have in mind of what a Summoner is. I acknowledge the first two, but the latter group is my focus. They're the ones that want a complete overhaul to the job, completely forgetting about the people that like it as a dot class with a pet. I know the chances for an overhaul are small, but the lack of thought that went into our gear this last patch makes me feel that Square might oblige [them]. That's my concern.

[Lavieh]

There are three groups of Smns right now. Those that raid and are unhappy with the job's performance in FCoB, those that are unhappy with the gear choices in 2.4, and those that are completely unhappy with the job itself - it doesn't mesh with what they have in mind of what a Summoner is. I acknowledge the first two, but the latter group is my focus. They're the ones that want a complete overhaul to the job, completely forgetting about the people that like it as a dot class with a pet. I know the chances for an overhaul are small, but the lack of thought that went into our gear this last patch makes me feel that Square might oblige [them]. That's my concern.

The third group has been around Since 2.0. Square likes their idea of a SMN class. SE hasn't acknowledged the SMN problem yet, which is the main part that I'm worried about.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm by no means a SMN main, but I do wonder, would changing Spur to having the same cooldown as Rouse and increasing the potency (and thus MP regen ability) on Energy Drain be enough to bring up the class enough? Or would the DoT potency of Bio, Miasma, and Bio II need to be played with also?

[loreleidiangelo]

I'm by no means a SMN main, but I do wonder, would changing Spur to having the same cooldown as Rouse and increasing the potency (and thus MP regen ability) on Energy Drain be enough to bring up the class enough? Or would the DoT potency of Bio, Miasma, and Bio II need to be played with also?

Energy Drain's MP restore is a fixed value, no matter how much damage it does. Unless the damage calc is worked into its base potency somehow, a potency buff won't help it. Well, it won't help the mana issues, at least; a potency buff would certainly mean it's not as big of a DPS loss to use in lieu of a Fester.

I personally don't think Rouse and Spur need buffs... A SMN can maintain decent uptime on both of those with their current CDs. SMN's biggest damage comes from Fester, and I think that move is what the dev team needs to address. Up its potency, remove it from Aetherflow dependency (with an increased CD, obviously...20 seconds seems all right to me), add potency to it from Miasma II and Shadowflare applications; SOMETHING.

[Dyvid]

I question for the hardcore SMN. How much of a DPS hit is it if you add Aetherflow > Energy Drain X 3 every 3 or 4 rotations? I did some test on Dummy and found that restores around 1400 mp with my current gear set.

[Akiza]

I question for the hardcore SMN. How much of a DPS hit is it if you add Aetherflow > Energy Drain X 3 every 3 or 4 rotations? I did some test on Dummy and found that restores around 1400 mp with my current gear set.

After 3 or 4 rotations a Hardcore Summoner will have around 800 MP which means they were ruin spamming while keeping up DoTs. It's around 150 dps over the course of an encounter.

[Viviza]

I question for the hardcore SMN. How much of a DPS hit is it if you add Aetherflow > Energy Drain X 3 every 3 or 4 rotations? I did some test on Dummy and found that restores around 1400 mp with my current gear set.

I'm not a hardcore summoner but I'll throw some numbers at you. At i110 my energy drains hit for about 500 while my festers hit for about 1000. At three times a minute that's a difference of 1500 damage, so a loss of 25 dps in exchange for 798 mana. Those numbers are without using any buffs, not in a group, not using food, not including crits, and not with the very best gear. If we say that my DPS with all those would be maybe 50% higher, then the actual loss would be maybe around 35 to 40.

[Lavieh]

After 3 or 4 rotations a Hardcore Summoner will have around 800 MP which means they were ruin spamming while keeping up DoTs. It's around 150 dps over the course of an encounter.

For my current gear, Each Energy drain is roughly a 8-10 DPS loss per use over Fester.

8.3 DPS loss if your fest is doing 1000 and your ED is doing 500

[Dyvid]

Well one key issue i just noticed on Energy Drain is that mp is a fixed value and not dependent on gear or damage done. Even when I critical for 700 it's 350hp and 266mp restore. That does need to be fixed.