I fear for Summoner

[Sanguisio]

lol these threads make me giggle.

A few points
-SMN does provide sustained dps
-CDs do overlap providing you pop them in order and maintain your rotation
-While optimal rotation does starve you off mana, you can drop a few ruin2s to help stable yourself i've seen alot of smns get caught up with just running around and using ruin2. At the end of the day smn is a caster, and you should be doing your casts in the same manner as a BLM; timing is crucial. Make full use of S-steps to get around instead of running and ruin 2 spamming.

-In the case of the SMN the pets need an overhaul. Now the issue is ACN works perfectly as a the described DOT class it is. SMN is supposed to be a pet command class with ACN foundations so the only way to make it play as described would be traits but they are also linked to SCH. It would be great if they could just alter the traits like 'Main & Mend' to affect the pets via multiplier which shadows the SMN or have it so when the soul of summoner is equipped a multiplier is applied to pets.

[Lavieh]

Snips

- Every class provides sustained dps. SMN is often effected by mechanics just as much as everyone else, while they can potentially be effected less there is still a potential that they will be effected more, albeit a rare case. This doesn't by any means they should deal considerable less damage than any other class though, this idealogy is extremely ignorant, it is like the people who didn't want BLM buffed because they could deal massive AoE damage. Most of the people commenting on how SMN DPS is, don't actually play the class or they haven't actually done good comparisons.

I also think it is important to note that SMN isn't like MNK at ALL, SMN starts with a high burst then slowly falls off until they reach a plateau.

[Akiza]

- Every class provides sustained dps. SMN is often effected by mechanics just as much as everyone else, while they can potentially be effected less there is still a potential that they will be effected more, albeit a rare case. This doesn't by any means they should deal considerable less damage than any other class though, this idealogy is extremely ignorant, it is like the people who didn't want BLM buffed because they could deal massive AoE damage. Most of the people commenting on how SMN DPS is, don't actually play the class or they haven't actually done good comparisons.

I also think it is important to note that SMN isn't like MNK at ALL, SMN starts with a high burst then slowly falls off until they reach a plateau.

The Summoner has a slow ramp goes into high bursts then slowly falls off until it reaches a plateu. If SE wants to make the Summoner sustained they should reduce the cool down on Enkindle to 60s that way Summoner's have a way to climb out of the DPS plateau.

[Lavieh]

The Summoner has a slow ramp goes into high bursts then slowly falls off until it reaches a plateu. If SE wants to make the Summoner sustained they should reduce the cool down on Enkindle to 60s that way Summoner's have a way to climb out of the DPS plateau.

I don't feel their ramp is slow at all, They reach maximum potential not even within 10 seconds of an encounter.

A 60s Enkindle would give them a little more spiky damage, similar to what Ninja has now, it would easily counter the fall that they have.

[Dyvid]

I don't feel their ramp is slow at all, They reach maximum potential not even within 10 seconds of an encounter.

A 60s Enkindle would give them a little more spiky damage, similar to what Ninja has now, it would easily counter the fall that they have.

Well when compared to BLM it's a slow build. To get max output we have cast shadowflare, miasma II, (bio I + bio II + miasma = Fester). So about 12.5? Also SMN really could use more burst damage for encounters like Tam-Tara HM, right now I have to link ruin 2 and ruin > energy drain > ruin which can be deadly I need to kill two or three.

[Sanguisio]

I don't feel their ramp is slow at all, They reach maximum potential not even within 10 seconds of an encounter.

A 60s Enkindle would give them a little more spiky damage, similar to what Ninja has now, it would easily counter the fall that they have.

I'd say 20seconds, but yeah SMN opener is lovely.

[Sanguisio]

snip

No they don't, when a SMN stops doing anything, their DOTs still tick, their pets still attacks, aside from a few dots there isnt another class in this game par ACN/SCH who can sustain the dps without doing anything for that period of time. SMNs dps fluctuates while they should maintain a base level of dps (DOTs,Pet) their dps will go up from things like contagion,pots,RS,fester.

Trust me I am not advocating for the SMN to be ignored because their dps isnt on par with others but I'm getting bored of people whinging about it.
and yes I have played every single dps in this game at the moment, so I think it is fair for me pass on my pov.

[Havenchild]

No they don't, when a SMN stops doing anything, their DOTs still tick, their pets still attacks, aside from a few dots there isnt another class in this game par ACN/SCH who can sustain the dps without doing anything for that period of time. SMNs dps fluctuates while they should maintain a base level of dps (DOTs,Pet) their dps will go up from things like contagion,pots,RS,fester.

Trust me I am not advocating for the SMN to be ignored because their dps isnt on par with others but I'm getting bored of people whinging about it.
and yes I have played every single dps in this game at the moment, so I think it is fair for me pass on my pov.

It's not whining when it's supported by 100% facts.

Is it the hardest DPS class to play in this game? Yes it is. (Opinion of course, but there quite literally isn't a class as hard anymore. DRG was possibly a runner up pre-patch, but with the Heavy Thrust positional nerf that is no longer true.)
Are the rewards balanced for it? Nope. The challenge of playing a SMN correctly in raiding content is far less rewarding then any other class. You are not rewarded with getting better damage, you are rewarded with losing less damage, but are still losing.


Rational use of Ballad? Why use Ballad for a SMN, when you can use Army's Paeon to benefit the 4-5 other DoW with TP including the BRD himself. Say you do use Ballad for the SMN exclusively, not only is it not worth the tradeoff to the BRDs DPS but in comparison with BLM whose self sufficient,


BRD + BLM + Foes >>>>>>> BRD + SMN + Ballad

or

BRD + 4-5 DoW + Army's Paeon >>>>>>>>> BRD + SMN + Ballad (with 4-5 DoW classes in party)

This is not whining but complete truth. It's not to say the class is incapable of downing the content. However, a SMN performing their optimal rotation and playing a rather tough class in comparison to the others and bottoming out on a resource to try and obtain competitive DPS vs the other classes, is not worth it.

Not to mention, the terrible gearing thrown at us.

There is no whining here. DRG got QoL adjustments but SMN has long needed QoL adjustments. DRG took precedence, with good reason within FCOB but SMN issues have been overshadowed for far too long.
Bringing this much known fact right now is whining?

Also you are incredibly wrong about SMN DPS. There is no maintaining some base level DPS in FCOB. You more or less are in negative decline the entire fight with very few exceptions where you can pick up reliably present.

[Sanguisio]

snip.

alot of people just whine lol.

Yes I agree SMN should have the same reward as MNK as they are bost similar and the more difficult of their respective dps types.

There is no point in t10, t11, t12, t13 where a SMNs dps stops, if it does you should probably change class. Your DOTs should always be ticking, yes the burst stops but starts up again every 2 mins, and even more so every 5m.

The SMN is gimped compared to other DPS classes on the fact we have to work hard and be pretty much perfect to maintain a decent dps and this needs to be addressed but I'm sick of people saying it is far worst than it is.

[Sanguisio]

Yes I agree, I hate that our big dps numbers are linked to festers which are in turn linked to our mana regen.

SE needs to address this and I would suggest ramping up DOT potencys a little.