Let Players Speed Run Again

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

BobbinT, the implied contradiction lies in the fact that he is on record saying he hates mechanics, but then suggests a random generated puzzle (which would be a mechanic that would not exactly be speed run friendly, no?)

And please don't try to play the grammar card. You're better than that.

[Jinrya-Geki]

BobbinT, the implied contradiction lies in the fact that he is on record saying he hates mechanics, but then suggests a random generated puzzle (which would be a mechanic that would not exactly be speed run friendly, no?)

And please don't try to play the grammar card. You're better than that.

I don't like the current mechanics, they are meant to slow you down forcefully. They are not meant to entertain people at all. If you are going to force me to stop make it interesting, that is the alternative I suggested. This way it's not re-the same thing over and over, it's random generated. If the developers aren't going to make it interesting, then they might as well just remove the dumb current mechanics and let the people who can , speedrun.

Most people who I have done runs with pull nearly all the mobs on the second pull after the yeti. If it were a paladin and they Hallowed Ground, I bet monsters could be burned, maybe not. That would be the trial and error I would do with my FC and parties who want to try in Duty Finder. It makes it fun and exciting to see if I could burn them, or tank those mobs.

[SpookyGhost]

If you are going to force me to stop make it interesting, that is the alternative I suggested.

This is another problem I have with the new dungeons. Prime example being Sastasha HM where there is literally a stopping point that requires you kill 2 whole enemies before progressing onward. Why is that there? For what purpose? We haven't had to do that since... early low level dungeons, and even then you could pull multiple packs of them at a time if you wanted to.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This is another problem I have with the new dungeons. Prime example being Sastasha HM where there is literally a stopping point that requires you kill 2 whole enemies before progressing onward. Why is that there? For what purpose? We haven't had to do that since... early low level dungeons, and even then you could pull multiple packs of them at a time if you wanted to.

I think you might be blowing that well out of proportion. Especially when you consider that's ALL there is between the first boss and second, minus 2 sets of 3 trash mob pulls. A good party can shred right through them with minimal time lost, so it's really a bit of a moot point.

[SpookyGhost]

I think you might be blowing that well out of proportion. Especially when you consider that's ALL there is between the first boss and second, minus 2 sets of 3 trash mob pulls. A good party can shred right through them with minimal time lost, so it's really a bit of a moot point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwm5CzqTJ_Q#t=1406

It's literally 2 trash mobs blocking the path. Why is the door there? Because they want us to clear 2 trash mobs, with 0 mechanics, and then proceed on to the next room (the next room is fine, bare in mind). Why...? Why is this a thing? It takes very little time to burn down 2 mobs, but what is the point in that stop gap? It's only purpose is to make sure you clear those 2 trash mobs before you proceed onto the next ones, which is what this entire thread is all about: the unnecessary walls. I feel like this one is THE most unnecessary because, again, it's 2 mobs that do absolutely nothing. At least the walls in Qarn have a monster that is supposed to have a "mechanic" blocking the way, Snowcloak you either deal with waves of trash/one trash mob with "mechanics" and you can pull large before you get to the wall there. That's not ideal, but it is significantly better than a wall where you fight 2 mobs that have absolutely 0 mechanics.

You could also try reading the post I was quoting, the one that recommends making the walls interesting if they're going to be there at all. Since that was sort of what I was expanding on, using an example of a room with absolutely 0 mechanics, just (again) 2 trash mobs that do nothing but die.

[Zedd702]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwm5CzqTJ_Q#t=1406

It's literally 2 trash mobs blocking the path. Why is the door there?

You could also try reading the post I was quoting, the one that recommends making the walls interesting if they're going to be there at all. Since that was sort of what I was expanding on, using an example of a room with absolutely 0 mechanics, just (again) 2 trash mobs that do nothing but die.

Same could be said about the original Sastasha at this same point, not once but twice is blocked by a (I don't want to call him a boss, but w/e) and the two trash adds. I look at them as Guards. You don't walk through a secured checkpoint without guards, do you? That's pretty much what those guys are. In order to pass that spot, you have to get pass the guards to proceed, otherwise turn back and leave the dungeon...

Would it make you feel better if they dropped a key?

[SpookyGhost]

words

Sastasha NM is a lvl 15 dungeon. Sorry for thinking things might get a bit better at lvl 50. My complaint isn't that they don't drop "a key" (literally said that nowhere, you're talking pure conjecture, don't even know why I'm responding this tbqh), my complaint is that it's 2 mobs that do literally nothing in front of a door that doesn't let you proceed until you beat those 2 mobs. It's really horrible dungeon design and I really don't understand why everyone is excusing it.

If you had the choice between:

1.) 2 mobs that did literally nothing but auto attacks, are squishy as hell, in front of a door that blocks you from proceeding or
2.) 2 mobs that had mechanics you had to deal with that required some semblance of coordination that blocked the path to the next area

which would you rather have? Would you really feel like those 2 mobs held any merit if they did nothing but auto attacks? Why are they special? Why are they the only ones guarding this door? And if they were in charge of it, they should at least do something more than auto attack you. Surely, even the First Mate that is summoned after you kill all the trash in the next room is better fit for guarding this door, if not something more powerful. Am I wrong? Do people feel fine with having a wall guarded by 2 trash enemies that do literally nothing? Does no one want to at least have some challenge in these dungeons if we're not meant to speedrun them? And I'm not talking about even Coil1 level mechanics here, just some sort of "mini boss" guarding the stop signs, something that felt WORTH the time you have to sit there for.

more words

I'm complaining about 2 mobs that serve no purpose but to slow down the time it takes to get from boss B to boss C. While I think trash in general is just as the name implies, some of them actually have mechanics you have to adhere to (Tonberry Stalkers in WP, most of the trash in Lost City, most of the trash in Pharos Sirius, pre-nerf wasps in Qarn NORMAL MODE, etc. etc.). I would actually like it, if I'm forced to stop, to have a little bit of challenge or at least a slight bit of difficulty. Call me insane, but being forced to stop, kill 2 trash mobs who do absolutely nothing lest we forget, and then proceed onward just feels like horrible pacing by the dungeon designers. The next room is fine, but this room just seems... completely pointless. It's not really much of an improvement, but as a counter example there's a room in Snowcloak where it's literally (I believe) 2 dogs and 1 ice bomb. The bomb can explode and do large damage if stood inside of. The fact that that is better than this kind of speaks volumes.

Anyway, "missing the trees for the forest" isn't how that idiom goes but I do understand what you're saying. However, I'm not saying that "THIS IS BAD THEREFORE EVERYTHING IS BAD". I'm saying this thing is bad and is one of the examples where they put absolutely no effort into the trash before the wall. They have put work into other trash, such as the deathdancers or whatever they are that get healed by the spumes as you said. Those are great, they aren't exactly what I'd want but they serve a purpose and make you feel like you've overcame a small obstacle and can now move onto the next one. If that was consistent, I wouldn't be complaining. I don't really care about speedrunning dungeons, Snowcloak as-is is quick enough for me, and while I don't think suicidal tanks should result in SE putting up walls in the dungeon - I can understand why that would be the easiest choice to deal with that issue. Basically, if I can't go fast, I'd at least like to have some fun along the way - that a bad thing or something? Does no one want fun now? Kinda confusing when people are just fine with 2 random trash mobs that do nothing, but are so against speedrunning.

[BobbinT]

BobbinT, the implied contradiction lies in the fact that he is on record saying he hates mechanics, but then suggests a random generated puzzle (which would be a mechanic that would not exactly be speed run friendly, no?)

And please don't try to play the grammar card. You're better than that.

You really need to understand which mechanic being talked in this thread. If you run the same thing over and over, won't you get tired anyways? Random puzzle however, are more entertaining, and sometimes ppl are okay with their time wasted away trying to solve the puzzle. In my case, it's like Chess or Sudoku, I enjoy my time playing it trying to solve since there are literally endless possibility, unlike Solitaire which I generally trying to just rush it through since I play this from Windows 3.0 era which is way too boring. That's one of the point of speed-running. Wasn't necessary a must since we can still slow down for any inexperience players. I understand what OP meant by being punished for old method.

Another thing that proves speed-run was in fact very important and even a must: Coils of Bahamut. That content was meant for players required to master their output effectively. The enrage timer was placed there for that sole reason. This is why I said in previous post about the importance of speed-running. Every party member need to play effectively, not just tanks and healers.

Remember quest Relic Reborn in 1.0? The majority of quest steps in that quest are purely and stricly speed run only, or should I say Super-speed run. Then we see ppl starts to complain how tough it is to beat the quest. Yoshi even admits making the quest so difficult on purpose. In the end, Relic Reborn quest was greatly nerfed in ARR and Coil of Bahamut was created as a substitute for it.

But... if you want to enjoy this game in your own leisure, no one's gonna hold you back. Just don't expect you can try beating end-game content like Coil without learning to play your job effectively on tight schedules. ^^;

So yes, that "contradiction" thing was kinda hit and miss for me. ^^;

Too bad your achievement information are locked, though your current gear kinda speaks for itself.