Let Players Speed Run Again

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Let me get this straight: you're complaining about 2 mobs in the way. 2 mobs, really? You complain they "do nothing but die" but you seem to be missing the trees for the forest here. Let's break it down: You've got an enemy that is actively healed by non-aggressive "adds" that do party wide damage when killed, AND is covered by 2 lesser versions of itself. Sure, they're easy to kill, but that sounds like someone at least put thought into that one. Not just the encounter, but the mechanics. I don't recall seeing that anywhere else in any other dungeon so far, and please correct me if I'm wrong. Remove the door, and what would you get? Speed junkies who'd gather them up, then likely die due to the constant aoes also hitting the spumes, making both the aoes a bad idea AND the healer having to keep up with constant incoming party wide damage. Turn 2 for what.

Come on man, how many of us have seen people with at least 1 or 2 poetics/HA pieces pull the first 4 to 5 mobs in Snowcloak then get wrecked simply because of more damage in than out? I can't say it enough; the "old" method was possible because things were too easy. Things actually hit back and pose a threat, even if still totally manageable with a good party. Those who aren't careful, get wrecked. And truthfully, deserve it.

And I'm gonna be that bad person and just say it: You say you want at least want interesting mechanics if you HAVE to slow down or be stopped, but then what? Gonna still try to stick to "old methods" and complain when that doesn't work? Get real, people. The bar got raised. The "old" method is a knife. . . Welcome to the gun fight.

[Firepower]

Real speed running was when the tank aggroed every mob in the dungeon and died where everyone else just followed and raised the tank when the mobs went back to their starting positions.

But aside from that at least these gates stop over zealous tanks pulling more than their party can handle. I don't mind these gates as long as the total dungeon time run in an efficient manner is no longer than the previous set of dungeons as all the previous dungeons don't really take much more than 15-20 mins run by a decent team I wouldn't want newer ones to take longer simply because I think that is the limit for a dungeon.

I think the first CT raid tested the maximum limit for people's patience I believe it was simply too long which is what first encouraged the in progress fishing. ST is a much more reasonable length and flows better.

What I believe would be a more effective manner in this is to introduce the newest dungeons with a switch to toggle a speed run variant and a normal one, the Roulettes can include normal versions but if running standard duty finder you could toggle on a "speed run" button that would be an identical dungeon but with barriers removed for example the doors and keys in Qarn. The reason for this being that your average once a day roulette person is unlikely to be massively bothered if the dungeon isn't speed run, but someone grinding tomes for relic upgrades or light would find it extremely frustrating. If you was able to steamroll it in the most efficient manner, thus allowing them to create a party specifically to speedrun through a dungeon without barriers would make some of these relic grinds quicker and easier.

[SpookyGhost]

My initial argument was that they shouldn't exist at all and that the walls should disappear entirely, which I stand behind. But, if there are going to be walls, the trash standing in front of them should be a bit more difficult than normal trash. This is literally the case for some other walls, the deathdancers or w/e in the very same dungeon, the head + hand(s) in Qarn, the dragons with the AOE in Snowcloak. But here, at the entrance to the Kraken's lair, are two crew members who apparently had a bit too much to drink and can't be bothered to do anything worthwhile to safeguard the entrance to the final boss area. Maybe that's only strange to me and that inconsistency is fine with everyone else, but I personally liked the other trash mobs and felt they gave the walls a purpose. They weren't tough, but they at least felt like they belonged there.

Anyway, I can see you're not going to be swayed from your stance, so I'll let you get the last word in. Feel free to say whatever makes you feel better about yourself. o/

[Kaiser-Ace]

I remember back in the 1st couple of weeks of 2.0's release. I made it to satasha in the 1st week of the game (Was at ifrit by weeks 2 after cross skill grinding) and when I was a freash lvl 15 with next to no MMO exp PLUS with three others who had ZERO mmo exp to that point, Satasha and the others were actually hard then. Why? because we were all lvl 15s with crappy gear and no idea how the enemys functioned.

And here you come complaining over a year later about how a LVL 15 Dungeon is easy? Try running Bryflox HM in Af 1 gear, or Hullbreaker in Darklight Armor, or Snow Cloak in CT 1 gear, those are the MIMIMUM item levels needed to cue them and THEY, ARE, A, B**CH! at that level. Cue a lvl 80> Dungeon in 100+ gear and no S*** that it's going to be stupid easy. Heck Satasha HM's Kraken is easy as heck now that it's ideal methid has been figured out. DPS foucus on the Arms, Ignore the tenticals, Tank spanks the boss and BOOM, kraken dies in mear minutes. My record kill for Kraken with that method was 3 minutes with an over all 15 minute run of the whole place, ZERO WIPES. On the other hand our gear was ranging from 110-120 so OF COUSE IT WAS EASY.

[Ellatrix]

ITT most people fail to understand underlying gameplay mechanics (and surprise surprise, you're still in welfare token gear).

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

ITT most people fail to understand underlying gameplay mechanics (and surprise surprise, you're still in welfare token gear).

Ellatrix, no one cares what high level gear you have that they don't. Seriously, it's anything but exclusive. Not only is that completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, I'd expect a player of your caliber to know and understand that gear and skill are not relative of each other. And before you even TRY the argument that having the skill to get that gear makes it relative, plenty of people have pointed out the flaws in that statement in another thread.

So seriously, just give it a rest.

[Kaiser-Ace]

gear and skill are not relative of each other.
So seriously, just give it a rest.

This ^

High Level gear will never make a bad player good. The most it will do is let them live long enough to be carried vs dieing in one hit from a mechanic and being left behind to rot.

[Ellatrix]

Again you miss the point of the whole thread. There are intentional speed bumps placed in the new dungeons. "Going fast" != "Speed run".

This ^

High Level gear will never make a bad player good. The most it will do is let them live long enough to be carried vs dieing in one hit from a mechanic and being left behind to rot.

Things said by people who have never set foot in coil. Someone in full HA is basically guaranteed to be a more skilled and experienced player than someone in full soldiery. But this is going off on a tangent.

[LunaHoshino]

Someone in full HA is basically guaranteed to be a more skilled and experienced player than someone in full soldiery.

Said by someone who is a self-admitted clear-seller.