Let Players Speed Run Again

[Jinrya-Geki]

I believe I understand the point of the thread.
"Let me speedrun because I dont have time to help n00bs L2P! Capping is more important than learning the mechanics and helping n00bs! LOL, n00b, *vote kick succeeds*"
Unless I missed something in the last ten-eleven pages?
Thats what I read the first page as.

Yeah first page, I said it's the mechanics that I don't like. I have no problem with going slow for new players. So you missed my point and like 4th person to say I don't like to go slow for new people.

[LunaHoshino]

Yeah first page, I said it's the mechanics that I don't like. I have no problem with going slow for new players. So you missed my point and like 4th person to say I don't like to go slow for new people.

But that's why the mechanics were put in place-- because there are a lot of people who DO get grumpy about going slow for new players. Many, many times I've been slotted into a dungeon with a tank who just zooms off doing a speedrun without ever asking if the rest of the party was okay with that. It's one thing to speedrun if everyone agrees that's what they want to do. It's something else entirely when players just assume that everyone in the party is down for it.

[Kinseykinz]

But that's why the mechanics were put in place-- because there are a lot of people who DO get grumpy about going slow for new players. Many, many times I've been slotted into a dungeon with a tank who just zooms off doing a speedrun without ever asking if the rest of the party was okay with that. It's one thing to speedrun if everyone agrees that's what they want to do. It's something else entirely when players just assume that everyone in the party is down for it.

Not only this, but honestly, I've been the healer in plenty of PuG groups in the new EX. roulette dungeons this patch where people still do the large pulls where they can/up to whatever roadblock/gate is in the way. And not going to lie....it doesn't matter that the gate is there...if you ran beyond THAT spot with all the mobs you have+ picked up more, it wouldn't end well. Maybe, maybe with an ave ilvl 120ish group you could handle2-4 more mobs in the pile...but really, the gear (even more so than skill) disparity between players is getting larger and larger and unless you are going in with people you know/geared to the teeth, you really can't pull more than the size of pulls already available.

So sure, there might be a spot or two here and there where the mechanics slow you down (Snowcloak and the room where the mobs pop in waves but only after you kill each wave will more pop for example), but overall, when there's a gate, it would have been the logical 'pull to point' anyway. Also, Snowcloak has more of these 'gates' than the other two dungeons....but it is also the dungeon linked to the storyline, so likely those 'stops' were put into place since SE likely knew more 'undergeared' people were likely to show up in that queue.

[LunaHoshino]

-snip-

The healers are the ones I always feel bad for in speedruns because they're the ones who bear the brunt of it from trying to keep the tank alive (and the DPS, if the tank ends up losing aggro on any of the enemies, which happens a lot). My TP running low isn't nearly as much of an issue as the healer running out of MP.

[Jinrya-Geki]

But that's why the mechanics were put in place-- because there are a lot of people who DO get grumpy about going slow for new players. Many, many times I've been slotted into a dungeon with a tank who just zooms off doing a speedrun without ever asking if the rest of the party was okay with that. It's one thing to speedrun if everyone agrees that's what they want to do. It's something else entirely when players just assume that everyone in the party is down for it.

I get that. But why should I have to be punished for those jerks?

[Ellatrix]

Well you've confirmed you completely lack reading comprehension in addition to missing the point of the thread.

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

In a perfect world, it would be possible to SR without being pressured into doing so.

[Rasylia]

In a perfect world, it would be possible to SR without being pressured into doing so.

Welp, therefor you would need to eliminate all the elitist scumbags out there. Im maining Pld, and whenever someone wants me to SR during a Daily Dungeon, i just ignore them, wait until they think they need to pull, and then kick them out of the group.
Most if not all the time both other groupmembers agree with me.

[Jinrya-Geki]

You know, you have the ability to tell people you don't want to speed run. If the majority of the party wants to speed run you have to. Just like I have to slow down if the party wants to.

If you don't want a speed run you can leave the duty. You want to go slow means you have time to kill so you can wait for the next duty.

But it doesn't matter, the speed of the party. It's the mechanics like the gates, fall drops, trigger spawns. It's all boring and reused over and over and over.

Make a random generated puzzle or something if your gonna force me to atop. Make it interesting.

[Kinseykinz]

You know, you have the ability to tell people you don't want to speed run. If the majority of the party wants to speed run you have to. Just like I have to slow down if the party wants to.

If you don't want a speed run you can leave the duty. You want to go slow means you have time to kill so you can wait for the next duty.

But it doesn't matter, the speed of the party. It's the mechanics like the gates, fall drops, trigger spawns. It's all boring and reused over and over and over.

Make a random generated puzzle or something if your gonna force me to atop. Make it interesting.

Again though? How fast do you want to go?

I mean even in the ex roulettes...as a roughly ilvl 110ish healer my PuG groups live and get through it (doing the larger pulls) and we finish sub 30 mins....I don't know the exact times but I only cast protect once. Even if they do 'traditional' pulls, we finish sub 30 minutes.

Each of these dungeons has rewards...likely the reason you're 'farming' them and want them to be 'quicker'. In addition, you get a daily bonus reward for doing the EX roulette. SE likely based the value of the reward on how much time they thought you'd spend in there. Or more accurately...how much time they want you to spend in there. The reason the rewards are higher is because they expect you to spend 20-30 minutes a day on it and feel that time=that reward. I get you are saying 'but if I can do it faster, that should be my right/reward for the effort' But you're not seeing it SE's way. They basically are creating soft locks...because while the one tome is capped (Philo), the other is not. It's an MMO...it's filled with stop/go progression mechanics.

Still, it's a minor problem because as i said in my previous post, even if you had no 'gates' and could pull an entire floor...it wouldn't end well. The gates (for the most part) are located at the max amount of enemies the party can likely handle. ...Assuming ave ilvl of like 110-120ish.

As WHM i can tell you I don't have people dying...but there are pulls I'm using basically every cooldown I have+ stance dancing whenever possible so you can shave a couple seconds off a run. The DD's aren't working equally as hard (AoEing is AoEing, doesn't matter how many mobs...for most roles anyway)....even the tank isn't working that hard (personally I'm happy when I see them use at least one cooldown...you have no idea how many tanks pull large pulls and don't even bother mitigating their incoming damage at all) and SE already stated, they did not like the pressure to speed run placed on healers. They said this not because it's not doable...but because it makes healers carry more than 25% of the party load. (This is not me complaining...I like knowing that I can be 'pushed' and succeed...but I don't always want to be 'used' by random strangers I don't know so they can exit the dungeon 3 minutes faster, never to see me again).

So maybe you'll get speed run dungeons back once they can figure out how to spread the party load on a speed run so it's success doesn't live or die quite literally on the healers skill...although I seriously doubt it. As of now, they basically put gates up at 'largest managable pull'

As to 'if you're gating me make it interesting' You just complained things were too slow...now you want to do puzzles? Because that wouldn't get old by about run number 6.


Also on falls...once again, want it to go quicker? Fall and STOP... do not keep running off. Fall and stop at the point so 1-2 Cure III's and you're set...there is always that dude that runs off....always.

As to the 'recycling' everything is recycled...not just in this game, but all video games. Killing mobs is killing mobs...it's why DD's have 'rotations' and debate how/when to use each skill for max. output....because even killing things is rinse/repeat. And if you want speed runs, you are basically relying on 'just do your AoE rotation over and over' to work....no greater skill/thought (again on at least the part of the DD's) involved.