So votekick >abuse< is practically allowed?

[Defteros]

vote kick ban shouldnt be allowed in any DF instances, only PTs should be allowed to ban and even them with the true reasons. Although I am against it as a tool de per se.

Mei

duty roulette Low.
Quarn.
healer lv 35 with lv1 lalafell gear equipped
he stood still at the entrance of the dungeon, without even a word.


please tell me again how vote kick should not exist in DF.

[MeiUshu]

this would be classified as disturbing attitude and NOT harrassement, vote kick is existing for this reason

My grief is with the misuse of the kick vote, not when it is use approprietadly, I am against it, in my opinion should not exist, nor should the penalty exist, people should be free to go if they want to end of story BUT what is NOT acceptable is to kick people for reasons that arent one.


If you cant see the different and understand when to use what and why, then I am afraid I will requestion your age, your maturity and ability to play with others.

You make a decision your decision must be thought out, not just ...*oh let gets rid of him because we have a friend that we want in*....and kick the guy with *harrassement* as a reason just to get rid of him...

The tool is for mature people that understand the use of it and not for anyone to abuse rather then use as they see fit....your time is important then take your responsability and leave...or use kick since we have that stupid tool WHEN is approriate your example is approriate although I would have still voted *no* since after 10mn inactivity he would be kicked anyway, BUT not with the reason of *harrassement* just for disturbing the game.

I am agaisnt this, this tool shouldnt exist. Yet since they put it in place, SE shoudl also take their responsabilities and enforce sanctions against misuse of it because the disruption of being kicked for no reasons is equally as bad as having to put up with disruptive true disruptive attitude. As long as SE doesnt sanction misuse chaos is allowed and abuse too and people feel entitled to dispose of other people's time as they see fit even without true grounds for it. If your time is important and dont like where you are, just leave. Although if it was for me, those that accept to enter a dungeon and leave because they dont like it, should be sanctioned as well, but this is me I dont expect others to agree with this.

I am against this I will repeat it again but not because the tool is bad because people are bad and NOT mature enough to understand the real use that should be done of such, which then makes it a bad tool

Mei

[Chihaya]

If you are getting kicked often there's probably a reason.

Vote kick was a feature asked for by the players, which I agree with and use some what frequently - once or twice a week maybe - to get rid of trolls or people that just simply wanted to get carried without doing a thing.

I have yet been vote kicked while being present since the introduction of vote abandon, though I have probably been kicked a few times when my internet died on me.

[MeiUshu]

If you are getting kicked often there's probably a reason.

Vote kick was a feature asked for by the players, which I agree with and use some what frequently - once or twice a week maybe - to get rid of trolls or people that just simply wanted to get carried without doing a thing.

I have yet been vote kicked while being present since the introduction of vote abandon, though I have probably been kicked a few times when my internet died on me.

who said I am being kicked often?....you jump to conclusion rather fast, just beause someone is against something doesnt mean he or she is at the receiving end right ?.

didnt know there was a reason for kicking people that want to be carried without in your opinion doing a thing?...you are the reason why I am against the kick vote button.

Mei

[Defteros]

well, queueing with only lv1 gear and standing still for the entire time, for me, IT IS harassement.

was he trolling? was he expecting to gain exp point without doing nothing? who knows.
but I spent half an hour waiting for the duty to start, I'm not gonna spend time waiting again, because you think you are funny.

clearly it depends on how people use the vote kick... but you can't expect every player to have a brain and to use it.
just look at all the "summoner is ugly" "atma sucks" etc. thread in the forums xD

didnt know there was a reason for kicking people that want to be carried without in your opinion doing a thing?...you are the reason why I am against the kick vote button.

well... if you continue to get hit by plumes, or generally derping on the same boss mechanic, repeatedly... yes, you deserve a vote kick.
especially if you join a "exp only/farm party/going for the kill/know the strat" and you actually can't even stay alive till titan's heart. for example D:

[Chihaya]

Didn't say I was talking to YOU. You are sure too self conscious.

Just stating that the use of vote kick outweighs the abuse, abuse from what I have seen is relatively rare - if a person continuously get vote kicked, it is probably a problem with them instead.

And yea, I'll kick people if they just want to get carried - including getting locked out of fights on purpose - extensive AFKs - failing mechanics and causing repeated wipes when other players explain over and over what to do.



Different playstyle - Deal with it.

I don't run duties for you while you do nothing. If you want to participate and have basic hand-eye coordinations/motor skills, I probably won't kick you. But if you want to troll me and have me do everything for you - gtfo

[Krr]

Not performing your job function is disruptive.

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Knowing I'm playing with such a self-entitled and rude player is disruptive, so I'll be sure to vote dismiss you on sight.

Do you really want to continue this slippery slope of 'all players must play how I want or they are being disruptive I am entitled to votekick them in DF?'

Of course not! And thank god for both of us that's not how the TOS works. Disruption of play must be a willful and deliberate activity. This has actually been discussed several times in old hunt threads. A player must intend to disrupt your play, they cannot simply do so because you decided their threat generation wasn't good enough or they didn't parse high enough on a (technically even more TOS-violating) meter, or because they somehow lack the skill to feed you another easy clear. Conversely, if I votekick you and you aren't willfully disrupting me, I am willfully disrupting you by misusing the vote dismiss function. Any sane interpretation of the TOS would read this way.

Frankly, the 'difference in playstyle' screenshot is trash evidence of how Vote Dismiss is interpreted by the GM team. We have no context for what the 'difference' actually was other than a sobstory report of players being mean to someone for a nebulously given reason, and it could have been anything from refusing to speedrun as a properly tank to being that jackhole who shows up to a dungeon in a snowman suit unglamoured and acts like he's entitled to a run. None of these are 'failing to perform a role'. They are willfully disrupting play by choosing not to, which is different.

[Aylis]

Imagine all the cops took an attitude like that, criminals would run free..

You really don't watch much of the news do you? lol

ANYWAY fine, I'll bite.

You may not care, but do NOT mistake it for SE or the GMs not caring.

It doesn't take much effort to you know? look around and see things. The same complaints going on over and over over and nothing is changing. Players getting kicked for refusing to skip cut scenes, players getting kicked because they don't wish to speed run, players getting kicked because their rotations ain't up to par to the group. Who's trolling, who isn't trolling. Oh no this small party early pulled an A rank hunt mob and this other party reset it, blah blah blah and every petition under the sun.

If players were civil
If players just met in the middle.
If players didn't troll.
If players would listen and not get defensive over advice.

Then this all wouldn't be a problem now would it? The fact its STILL going on raises questions don't cha think? Maybe that old ban hammer isn't as heavy as people may think. Its not a question of if I care, its a question of how many complaints of stolen sweet rolls the GM's can tolerate.

The community is why we can't have nice things.

[KIka93]

Really glad to see that this community is about as dull as a sack of hammers. The clearest solution is to present this to SE, and I'm going to be doing so.

1.) "Different playstyles" Will not hold up if there is no prior complaints during the dungeon run. This means they can't just up and kick you.
2.) Viewing ingame cutscenes during dungeons is not a kickable offense, and anyone saying otherwise can shove off.
3.) Stating what item they'd like to get, of course if they put their time in, they have every right as a player to get said item, it's a dungeon in an MMO after all, players can't play god and decide who gets what, there's a roll system for a reason and people seem to forget that when they think they can swing their e-peen. (I'm gonna get a lot of flak from the FC people for this one, which is why I'm saying this: This is in the event of DF runs, not an organized FC run.)
4.) Questioning a playstyle and getting kicked when someone doesn't like how you think. (I've been booted so many times when people got mad at me for telling them to run away from the worm in Cutter's Cry when he gets the whirlpool move going, and they say it's unavoidable.)

^ These above are NOT legitimate reasons for a vote kick, and anyone booting on those grounds should be punished in my opinion. That GM is insanely lazy and needs to be talked to by his supervisor, hell all of the GM's need to since people keep submitting complaints on the bot armies on servers and yet GM's won't take action despite the fact that these are definite botters.

Now some legitimate reasons for vote/kick include:

1.) When your playstyle hinders the dungeon to the point that you're keeping it from moving forward.
2.) Racial/Offensive language.
3.) Harassment of players.
4.) Cheating.
5.) AFK'ing for more than 3 minutes.
6.) Being severely behind on equipment or have no knowledge of how to do the basics of your job.

The rules are much more cut and dry as someone thinks.

[Riepah]

A Dragoon was kicked from coil turn 1 for unintentionally causing 2 wipes because they were new and nobody bothered to explain the fight to them, kick vote initiated by a raging, arrogant and rude tank.

I talked to a GM about it. Not considered votekick abuse. Examples of vote kick abuse: Kicking people before loot drops to intentionally keep them from getting it, or kicking people before the final boss to intentionally keep them from getting the dungeon clear.

Kicking people for being new? Fair game - but it shouldn't be, the rules need some looking at.