SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

[Velhart]

People keep preaching the problems, but offer a worse solution. Should try not looking back at FFXI's outdated mechanics that would hurt the game more and think how you can improve on systems currently in place. Then again, majority of people complaining in here are once FFXI players and don't remember actually how much not fun a lot of the events and grinding was. I'm going to get flak just for pulling the rose tinted glasses card out.

People say that horizontal progression is better. I would argue that it helps nothing. The same BiS sets are going to exist, 95% of the gear end game will be irrelevant because the 5% of it will be the BiS and groups will require you to have it before joining their group. It happened in FFXI, don't pretend it didn't. Funny how many DPS I saw not get invited because they used a regular Haubergeon and not a +1, or no O.Kote. While vertical progression may have flaws in it's own right, it at least give a sense of empowerment and the feeling that your character is growing per piece you put on you. How good does it feel to do that 100 more damage to a mob after getting a better weapon? It feels very good.

People say that SE needs to break the mold on MMO mechanics. It has in many ways without shaking up the formula, and sometimes that is all that is needed. Shouldn't put the Final Fantasy series on a pedestal of originality in mechanics. The first one alone used blue prints from Dragon Quest to create it's game, and became it's own franchise in the process. It used a formula everyone was familiar with and added it's own thing to it with a great story, jobs, solid mechanics. FFXI used Everquest as a blueprint and made their own thing from it, and FFXIV used WoW as a blueprint and made their own thing from it. You can not agree or like it if you want, but that is how Final Fantasy has stayed successful since 1987. Presentation and tweaks to familiar systems is what has kept FF the power house it is for so long.

Not to mention, Heavensward from what little we have been given has already shown that major changes are happening. So i'll wait and see what happens.

[Nalien]

Come on man. It's very relevant. More relevant today than it ever was. The premise of your argument is false.

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear. Desynthesis is a joke to level and I seriously doubt anyone leveled it by farming such gear when there are far easier methods available, same for Company Seals. Haven't gotten i110 yet? Do Scyrus Tower and get i100 and upgrade items for i110, no idea why you'd opt to spam The Lost City instead.

Outside Glamour its relevance is utterly fleeting and certainly not something you'd go out of your way to obtain. It's a nice bonus if you're still gearing up or for desynth/Seals, but compared to the main pieces of gear in this game, its relevance is microscopic.

[thepalehunter]

I've loved FFXIV so far, but I have to echo OP's point that things are getting pretty stale. For me it's the combat (very repetitive AOE dodging on pretty much every boss fight in every dungeon) and lack of an explorable world. This latter point really bugs me - so many invisible walls, unscalable cliffs, unreachable peaks, unnavigable rivers... some modern examples of RPGs getting exploration right are Skyrim, DA:I, Guild Wars 2. FFXIV gives the impression each zone is a little bowl-shaped skybox you can't get out of. Modern RPG's should reward exploration, not prohibit it.

[Prototype909]

People say that horizontal progression is better. I would argue that it helps nothing. The same BiS sets are going to exist, 95% of the gear end game will be irrelevant because the 5% of it will be the BiS and groups will require you to have it before joining their group. It happened in FFXI, don't pretend it didn't. Funny how many DPS I saw not get invited because they used a regular Haubergeon and not a +1, or no O.Kote. While vertical progression may have flaws in it's own right, it at least give a sense of empowerment and the feeling that your character is growing per piece you put on you. How good does it feel to do that 100 more damage to a mob after getting a better weapon? It feels very good.

1)Gear discrimination or just player-base discrimination in general already happens, you're just as likely to get booted from a fight for not outputting enough DPS numbers or not being able to 100% deal with mechanics. It's dependent on the players involved.
2) Player-base discrimination shouldn't be the basis for not releasing more content, even if there's 1 BiS set not everyone is going to be able to get it and ultimately concessions will be made, just not by the most elite of players (Which is fine and expected)
For example in XI, if I can't clear Dynamis I can just go to Sky and try to get drops there, if I can't clear Sky I can go to Limbus and try to get drops there, if I can't X, I can Y. Or if I have multiple end game shells I could do all of the above, or any combination of end-game events.
3) Despite all of XI's problems it did just as many other things well - even exemplary, there are negatives in every game but it's about how that player views them against the positives. I'd rather have a breadth of content with a high barrier (With lots of lesser content predating it), than a selection of content that's shallow in both floor and ceiling just because "We're afraid playerbase might become douches" when in many cases the players in question are already exhibiting those behaviors

Also 100 damage on a mob? I don't care if I'm doing 500 damage or 600 damage as long as stuff is dying (Which in most cases, it's going to die regardless because most of the content in this game is outgeared on release), and unless it's some critical DPS check like cutting edge Coil turns chances are you can just deal with mechanics and still clear so long as nobody dies. In my book its either you clear or you don't, it doesn't matter if it happens 5% sooner or 5% later than what is expected of a group. I didn't feel stronger or empowered when I got my HA blade, I just thought "Ok, now time to work towards immediately getting rid of this because it's expected of me".

[Tiggy]

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear.

False. I know a few people this week that farmed them for points and for desynth. You're making assumptions about how people play.

Desynthesis is a joke to level and I seriously doubt anyone leveled it by farming such gear when there are far easier methods available, same for Company Seals.

Also false, some of the desynth categories don't have extremely easy options in the 60/70s. Many of the desynth categories are very tough after this point. Getting gear from dungeons is a perfectly viable form of supplementing desynth leveling.
As for company seals 1 drop from the expert roulette gives over 1k seals for 1 item. This is very effective for farming seals. Is it as fast as fate farming? Probably not, but it doesn't have to be the best to be viable and useful for people. Many people don't touch fates and only get GC from item turn ins.

Haven't gotten i110 yet? Do Scyrus Tower and get i100 and upgrade items for i110, no idea why you'd opt to spam The Lost City instead.

You need a certain ilevel to even enter those dungeons. Newer players won't yet have that yet. So that gear from the first few 50 dungeons will help them get to those higher level dungeons. Making that gear useful for standard leveling and gearing purposes however fleeting that may be.

You're ignoring valid uses for this gear simply because you want to ignore it to fit your narrative. Not because they are genuinely invalid.

[Maero]

Too much new gear to quickly is what i think and content that really does not need it.
And really none of this gear is needed at all unless you do coil and such. Soldiery gear was not out all that long until they came out with the new gear.
People really do not get how much easier it is to gear up now then what it used to be

[Velhart]

1)Gear discrimination or just player-base discrimination in general already happens, you're just as likely to get booted from a fight for not outputting enough DPS numbers or not being able to 100% deal with mechanics. It's dependent on the players involved.

I never said it didn't. Read again, I said horizontal is no better.

2) Player-base discrimination shouldn't be the basis for not releasing more content, even if there's 1 BiS set not everyone is going to be able to get it and ultimately concessions will be made, just not by the most elite of players (Which is fine and expected)

You would be surprised the list of factors developers have to consider when making new gear and content. Especially a horizontal one where balance can be easily broken by simply one piece of gear.

For example in XI, if I can't clear Dynamis I can just go to Sky and try to get drops there, if I can't clear Sky I can go to Limbus and try to get drops there, if I can't X, I can Y. Or if I have multiple end game shells I could do all of the above, or any combination of end-game events.

Sounds familiar. Ohh I can't beat Shiva and get the sword? Well i'll just go to ST, get a Sands of Time, Unmarked Allagan Tomestone, and 1300 Soldiery and buy one. Ohh or wait, I can keep doing my Zodiac quest and get one there. I need to build up my gear also, I can go do dungeon grinding, Hunts, Coils, Primals, or craft it.

3) Despite all of XI's problems it did just as many other things well - even exemplary, there are negatives in every game but it's about how that player views them against the positives. I'd rather have a breadth of content with a high barrier (With lots of lesser content predating it), than a selection of content that's shallow in both floor and ceiling just because "We're afraid playerbase might become douches" when in many cases the players in question are already exhibiting those behaviors

High barrier content already exists. Find how many players are in Final Coil right now. The answer is, not as much as you think. Creating too high of a barrier on several pieces of content makes it ultimately less appealing to the majority of players, and would eventually just become a niche game. People want to experience the content, and want the difficulty of the fights themselves to be the determining factor of their progression, not heavily built consequences to keep you away from it.

Also 100 damage on a mob? I don't care if I'm doing 500 damage or 600 damage as long as stuff is dying (Which in most cases, it's going to die regardless because most of the content in this game is outgeared on release), and unless it's some critical DPS check like cutting edge Coil turns chances are you can just deal with mechanics and still clear so long as nobody dies. In my book its either you clear or you don't, it doesn't matter if it happens 5% sooner or 5% later than what is expected of a group. I didn't feel stronger or empowered when I got my HA blade, I just thought "Ok, now time to work towards immediately getting rid of this because it's expected of me".

That doesn't really fly, especially in the DPS community. You should always strive to reach the levels that your skills are capable of despite if the fight is a DPS check or not. Also you prove my point saying you want more after your HA blade. Empowerment is quite a thing.

[Nalien]

You need a certain ilevel to even enter those dungeons. Newer players won't yet have that yet. So that gear from the first few 50 dungeons will help them get to those higher level dungeons. Making that gear useful for standard leveling and gearing purposes however fleeting that may be.

First few level 50 dungeons fall in the range of "after Darklight and before AF1.5"? Those were my exact words, and I mean them, I am talking specifically about gear like Shikaree's Doublet and Shirt Of The Divine Light. Crap from Amdapor Keep and Wanderers Palace are perfectly valid for a newb 50. Gear drops from Lost City are not. At that point you have vastly better options available to you, and even if you didn't, that gears drop rate is so pathetic that you'll be buying gear with tomestones before you see any of it actually drop.

As for company seals 1 drop from the expert roulette gives over 1k seals for 1 item. This is very effective for farming seals. Is it as fast as fate farming? Probably not, but it doesn't have to be the best to be viable and useful for people. Many people don't touch fates and only get GC from item turn ins.

FATE farming? Who'd bother with that. Go buy a stack of Hippo Leather and Sinew and just earn 1k seals/minute.

As for desynth. Darklight and Heroes/AF1.5 are great. Everything in between is fairly irrelevant. Again, my exact words were "after Darklight and before AF1.5".

[Tiggy]

Again, my exact words were "after Darklight and before AF1.5".

No your exact words were..

That gear is solely relevant for Glamour, that's the only reason someone would actively farm the gear.

To which you now want to nit pick the details of my examples. The fact remains I presented reasonable uses for the gear in the face of your glamor only argument.

In addition having multiple ways of obtaining something (gc seals) doesn't invalidate other methods. Some people don't want to do the hippo leather. Some people use that method AND sell gear from dungeons and do both. The point remains that it's a valid way to get GC. Other methods in no way change the validity of this one or it's effectiveness.

[Kallera]

I'm not going to believe they'll change this now. I feel like I have waited long enough, and the changes won't be as earth shattering as believed. Rather, it will be the same stuff. Just more of it at once to look new.

I do think this is a ongoing problem, though. One that makes the experience seem more like an addiction when trying to go through it. It used to be just the df and battle classes with this issue. Now its all aspects of play, the housing, the crafts, the gathering. Its tedium all they way through, and shameless tedium.