SE enough of the treadmill, please make the game more interesting!

[Nicobo]

The thread is still up, you could try actually reading it and making a relevant post! ^^;

If you have read OP carefully and if you know XI well, you would know what I was saying was relevant.

[Ryel]

If you have read OP carefully and if you know XI well, you would know what I was saying was relevant.

Nah, the op simply stated that it was great that XI had plenty to do, not that they wanted to play XI.

They then made the point that XIV's gear ladder is a poor design choice, not just compared to XI but to the point that it may very well prevent them re-subbing to the game (something SE desperately needs their players to do to keep this game running), many others have come in and given reasons as to why this is the case.

To simply say "Well XI is there you can go play that!" is completely irrelevant to the very real issues people are bringing up when it concerns the ladder form of vertical gear progression, and contrary to popular belief there are more MMOs out there than just XI that have come up with alternate ways of dealing with the problem.

It's like back in 1.0 when people suggested adding jumping like in WoW to the game and the response was "Well go play WoW if you want jumping", i guess it's a good thing the devs didn't take those comments to heart eh?

Wanting the game to take inspiration from the systems that worked in other games is not the same as wanting to play those other games, but rather wanting the game to adapt these ideas and grow instead of becoming stale and stagnant. But i shouldn't have to make this point, as you would realize this if you had actually read the thread ^^;

[HeroSamson]

I agree.

I was finishing my weathered armor and now a new set of armor appears, I feel like the game is a couple of quest, few missions and only armor after those other two run out then grind levels.

I wish they would drag the quest on, say take quest, send me to fight a strong monster, maybe 2-5 strong monsters to finish one quest, not talk to this person then that person and done.

[jars]

horizontal progression is duuuuuuuuuumb. no one wants to spend all that time on gear that is a sidegrade. if you are one of the few people that do then FFXI is right there, go play it. FF14 is far more successful than 11 was they have no reason to go back to the model when the one being used in 14 is a proven success.

[BlaiseArath]

horizontal progression is duuuuuuuuuumb. no one wants to spend all that time on gear that is a sidegrade. if you are one of the few people that do then FFXI is right there, go play it. FF14 is far more successful than 11 was they have no reason to go back to the model when the one being used in 14 is a proven success.

Well to be fair, FFXI came out back when MMOs weren't very popular or well known, that didn't happen til around WoW... and once WoW came out, it attracted pretty much everyone, and very few people would break away from WoW. While WoW still exists, you can see the discontent many of its fans have for it (at least vocal minority blah blah), and its popularity has dwindled a bit... plus, a MMOs are high in popularity these days and a lot of people "MMO hop" to the next cool thing. Plus, the absolute failure of 1.0 actually gave the game a lot of publicity, so believe it or no that benefited 2.0's release, as people wanted to see if it had improved. The stars aligned for XIV to become the success it is really.

The problem with is, XI wasn't very new player friendly for the longest time, so when it came to the point MMO popularity was being picked up, new players weren't helped to reach endgame and grew bored quite quickly, stunting the games over all growth. At its peak it did reach 500k subscribers and is still survived by a modest player base as people like to bring up.. pretty good for a game with "Dumb" progression system if you ask me.

FFXIV is by no means bad though, thats not what I'm getting at - nor do I think infinite side-grades is the best model (which is why XI did release newer, best in slot pieces often enough, the idiots will quote the same tired crap of 1-2 body pieces across 20 jobs being "the best" for a while meant the other 15 slots apparently never got upgraded?).

[Sho86]

horizontal progression is duuuuuuuuuumb. no one wants to spend all that time on gear that is a sidegrade.

Sooo.... Spending all that time on gear just for it to get entirely replaced is better?

[Duelle]

Sooo.... Spending all that time on gear just for it to get entirely replaced is better?

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the concept of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

[Sho86]

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the content of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

Unhealthy attachment? And wanting to do the same grind over and over again for the same job with slightly bigger numbers is healthy? Right... Also, content progression is NOT "snuffed" in any way. Just because your hitting for bigger numbers does not mean the same scenario could not be done with a couple digits less. Name any current dungeon, raid, coil, whatever that we are doing now - and it could be done with Lv10 gear, if they chose it to be done at that level. The difficulty would still be the same as the scenario would be scaled to it. Titan EX could have been Titan SM and so forth.

[Duelle]

Unhealthy attachment? And wanting to do the same grind over and over again for the same job with slightly bigger numbers is healthy?

That's how progression works. Out with the old, in with the new. When you resist you're showing you a) don't understand the concept of progression and b) are unwilling to move forward because of unhealthy attachments/nostalgia. Which is no different from the nonsense I saw on the FFXI boards when the developers wanted to move content in a certain direction and the people with relics/mythics/empyreans started crying that their time spent and the gear that came from it wasn't cream-of-the-crop uber elite. Which by extension is also no different from the WoW players in Naxx gear who complained that their gear wasn't going to matter once The Burning Crusade hit.

Also, content progression is NOT "snuffed" in any way.

I said this because when your main intent is making old stuff relevant in the same scale as new stuff, you're either making concessions in gear design, content design or character growth. I'm not about to sacrifice any of those just because someone is upset their breastplate from final coil will become obsolete.

For the record, I've done more gear grinds than I can count. The only thing that ever bothered me about disposing of old gear was that I liked the design of some, especially as looks varied depending on the tier/gear level. Lo' and behold, systems like wardrobe, transmogrification and glamours come into existence and pretty much do away with the only problem I ever had with sharding/tossing/selling outdated gear. Gear is tangible, yes, but like everything else there will come a time when it has to be replaced. That's why I'll cling more to my memories raiding or the odd weapon/gear that makes sense for my character's concept (my gnome's favorite weapon in WoW was an axe I got while questing in deepholm, nothing from any raid) over the current top gear.

[Nalien]

Better than having an unhealthy attachment to gear while wanting to snuff the concept of progression as much as possible to keep said gear relevant.

It isn't even about that. Most of the gear they add is simply worthless from the start; see any dungeon drop after Darklight and before AF1.5. That gear was never relevant. Making it relevant actually adds a whole new activity to the game. Keeping gear relevant actually gives players more to do than capping tomestones on a weekly basis. Gods forbid this game has more content to do.

Also, you're pretty silly if you think progression is solely about throwing out the old. There are plenty of examples of progression where we've kept the old, or simply improved upon it. Why? Because humans like having options (see: Transportation), that is why people want such gear to remain relevant, because it gives them options. The only real sense of progression this game has is the Relic quest, everything else is more akin to a trend. We had the Darklight trend, the Mythology trend, etc. etc.. Progression in Coil would have been nice, always thought it'd have been better to keep First/Second Coil more relevant by having the gear from First upgrade to Second, and finally now to Final, rather than each new Coil dropping entirely new pieces that replace the old.