The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Tiggy]

Who is claiming whose time? The game is meant to be played together last I checked and wiping is part of the game too.

Yes, it most certainly is. It's also each players prerogative to decide how they want to spend their time. If someone wants to log in for the night and they don't feel like wiping while helping someone then that's their choice and you need to learn to respect it. People value there time, and you are in zero position to demand or expect anything from them. Your posts clearly paint a picture where you expect people to help just for the fun of it. So you are a prime example of the kind of person who expects time from these other players regardless if you earned it from them. Just because the game is played together does not mean people owe you anything. That's practically the definition of entitled which google defines as "believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment." We all worked very hard for our wins and for the skills we've obtained by running tougher content. Then you expect to walk up and just get help from everyone because it's a multiplayer game and we all play together? You get no special treatment or special privileges just because we all play the same social game. Your reasoning falls flat and clearly defines your position as one of entitlement.

This is something the community can come together and achieve. And this is not telling people how to play the game, this advocating for people come together and help each other.

If you're on this forum denouncing those player selling runs, and by trying swaying them through the community as you suggest you are also effectively trying to force people to play the way you want to because you disapprove of the way they are currently doing it. Stop trying to tell people how to play. Not every person out there shares your morals, your code, or your ethics. You need a bit more "deal with it" in your life.

It's as simple as this Nyaruko. If you want people to have help then by all means. Go learn the fights and join random party finder groups and help people out yourself. I'm sure you'll become well known and respected on your server for doing such a thing if you do it enough as it is indeed a noble thing to do. However, don't expect everyone to be so selfless with their time and don't come here and rip on them for failing to do the same. This game isn't a charity. Every player doesn't want to jump into party finders all white knight style with their cape blowing in the wind.

It's like you avoided the entire premise of Tiggy's post. People have no obligation to help others. Some *might* because they feel like it. Most do not have time to "relearn" content. It's really goddamn simple.

If you see any of his other responses in other threads you'll see he does this a lot. He avoids the part of the response that raises a good argument against his position every time. Then he attempts to nitpick the most inconsequential parts of the response. Just wait. He'll do it again soon.

[craig_meredith2003]

Been following this thread for awhile. First I am very casual I get maybe 2 hrs of free time per night, so that doesn't leave me a lot of time to do any endgame. But I still get things done. I'm in no hurry to race to the end of anything. I'm very lucky tho i have a great fc when i need something done usually gets done. But I want to learn the fights not be carried at all. If I wipe 1000 times in pf/df so be it as long as some progression is being made. If player A who has beaten it wants to help that is great "teach me" if not that is fine too. Unless i'm paying them for their time it is that their time. If they want to help their choice if not their choice as well. If they want to sell wins great someone will always need it who is anybody to judge for how anyone plays unless TOS is broken. Is a win/win.

[NyarukoW]

...
If you're on this forum denouncing those player selling runs, and by trying swaying them through the community as you suggest you are also effectively trying to force people to play the way you want..

Really since when is speech equated to force? You certainly have a way to distort the facts and reality. Most of the time it will be ignored, like that crazy preacher on the side walk. But that doesn't mean the preacher doesn't have a valid message or that what they are doing is wrong. I have every right to be here denouncing the clear sellers.

.. Not every person out there shares your morals, your code, or your ethics. ..

Are we captain obvious now? I never expect people to have the same value, beliefs, or whatever else. But fact remains that the game can be better if people can work together and help each other, and being more inclusive is just a step in that direction.

And the idea that " people have no obligation to help others" is failure to understand that helping others is actually enlightened self-interest. No on can be forced to do anything because it is realistically impossible and I won't even invoke karma or anything like that. However in plain simple mathematical and probabilistic terms, the more people you can help clear the gated content, the larger the pool of players you can draw from when tackling newer content, so it will be easier to get groups and statics. It requires taking a longer view and be willing to be more patient for the return on investment. This is a strategy that can help all the players together.

The only people that are unhappy about this are those looking to divide and exploit other players. Since there is no open world PK and other atrocious crap like that, these people want to take out it on other players thru means like clear selling. Instead of having open and fair competition, they want to manipulate things so they can take advantage of the innocent. And to top if off, they have the nerve to come here crying about how they being told how to play, because they are being called out for their bad behavior.

[Tiggy]

And the idea that " people have no obligation to help others" is failure to understand that helping others is actually enlightened self-interest. I won't even invoke karma or anything like that. In plain simple mathematical and probabilistic terms, the more people you can help clear the gated content, the larger the pool of players you can draw from when tackling newer content, so it will be easier to get groups and statics. It requires taking a longer view and be willing to be more patient for the return on investment. This is a strategy that can help all the players together.

News flash. People don't care, and way to miss the entire point of my post once again and to try and nitpick the small stuff that didn't matter at all. You completely fail to acknowledge that a persons time is there own and you're simply acting entitled to expect them to use it the way you want them to. You completely ignore everything that actually refuted what you believe and you seem to honestly think you're debating the topic. You're not.

Here's the skinny kid. I have an FC with well over 100 active members. If you aren't on that member list then I don't care about you. You don't exist. Everything you said is in my self interest to do I do for my FC and my FC only and I do therefore cultivate an effective pool of players and friends to help me complete content. Our FC members frequently get the wins they've been working on since we'll see them struggling to learn a fight over the course of a few days and then a few of us will team up and make that win happen. We invest our time internally to make a better more effective guild and we get people their wins all the time. The game has too many people and I have too little time to care about every single person so I limit my dealings to my FC, and others are going to do the same. There is zero reason to expect players to white knight for every downtrodden player on their server. It's unrealistic to expect it of them as well. If players want to complete content more often maybe they should stop trying to appease the entire server as you suggest and start building a better guild like I did. An investment spread too broadly will return nothing of value.

Also, needs more deal with it. People won't play the way you want them to and you need to accept that.

[NyarukoW]

.... People don't care

You don't care, not people don't care. People like OP very much does care. Why else this thread here? You just wish it doesn't exist. And if you don't care why does a thread like this bother you so?

....The game has too many people and I have too little time to care about every single person...

More obvious facts. But does it mean people should not care? I won't fault you or anyone because they are limited in time, just like the OP is limited in time, so why fault the OP and say they don't deserve to try SCoB or FCoB? Time is limited for everyone including myself. I can't do everything I'd like to for myself or for my FC or others. But it doesn't stop me from trying.

...People won't play the way you want them...

Find a post where I dictate how people must play? I am only advocating for what I believe can be done and should be done, and who knows there might be people that can actually do it and do it better than myself. In any case I only ask people not the behave badly toward newer players and newbies, via excluding them, treating them with hatred and contempt, and yet gladly taking their gil.

[Tiggy]

You don't care, not people don't care. People like OP very much does care. Why else this thread here? .

You're right. If more people cared this thread wouldn't exist because it wouldn't even be a problem. However, this thread does exist so enough people don't care and therefore you have people making these threads because there is indeed a problem. It's your assumption that this viewpoint isn't shared and it's a direct fallacy to automatically discount my point because of that. I don't have numbers and neither do you, but it's not even remotely a stretch since it's obvious that enough people don't care to ensure threads like this exist.

More obvious facts. But does it mean people should not care? I won't fault you or anyone because they are limited in time, just like the OP is limited in time, so why fault the OP and say they don't deserve to try SCoB or FCoB? Time is limited for everyone including myself. I can't do everything I'd like to for myself or for my FC or others.

If that's so obvious to you then maybe you need to reflect on your demands of people in your past posts. It doesn't seem like you have any respect for peoples personal time at all. People will only care as far as they can extend themselves and that's not very far with limited time available to them. Time which you agree people are limited by including yourself.

[NyarukoW]

...It doesn't seem like you have any respect for peoples personal time at all. ...

That is also a false assumption you like to make. I very much respect the time of all the players. So I am very much in support of SE latest penalty for the DF for withdraws.

Since there appears to be a bit of confusion, I’d like to explain a little bit about how the Duty Finder penalty system works.

After the participants have been matched together, penalties will be counted in the event you press the “Withdraw” button or fail to press any button at all in the allotted time frame. As long as all of the party members have not been matched together, leaving the queue will not count towards the penalty.

Also, in the event that you queue up to the Duty Finder as a party, if one party member withdraws when matched, it will count as a penalty towards all of the party members. This excludes times when you queue as a complete pre-made party. Withdrawing in these instances will not count towards the penalty.

*When it comes to Crystal Tower, immunity for the withdrawal penalty only takes place when you queue as a full, pre-made 24-person alliance.

Because too many people take others for granted. And that attitude is a problem. And it is that same exploitative attitude that lets the clear sellers take the gil from newer player and newbies that they treat with contempt and disdain.

[Tiggy]

That is also a false assumption you like to make.

It's not an assumption. Based on your attitudes in past posts, other threads, and your expectations of players that makes me say that statement with confidence. Maybe you should think harder about how your argument makes you come across.

That is also a false assumption you like to make. I very much respect the time of all the players. So I am very much in support of SE latest penalty for the DF for withdraws.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what we were just talking about. You're straw man is denied.

[Edli]

these people want to take out it on other players thru means like clear selling. Instead of having open and fair competition, they want to manipulate things so they can take advantage of the innocent..

Oh the innocent, the poor souls. You have a very childish concept of the raider and the casual. The raider is this devil being with horns with an evil grin that continuously tries to find ways to abuse on the innocent. That's what he thinks about all day. Everything the raider does is for that goal. The casual is this puppy-eyed angel one that gets abused.

Even in your continuous war against these clear sellers you only blame the ones that sell the clears but never the ones that buy it, you know the ones that actually encouraged this strange behavior in the first place. I know who these innocents are, these poor souls that are forced to buy apparently. They're the ones that don't want to be bothered in learning a fight, going through days and days of wiping like everyone else that actually raids went through. They want the cheap way out. They're no innocents so spare us the tears please.