The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Tiggy]

Nobody is making any assumptions about your motives. Your simple point only applies to you. The fact of the matter is that you don't speak for everyone else.

He simply echos the sentiment that myself and most of the people I do primals and coil with. There is a lot to do in the game. We are not obligated to help anyone just because you think we should. Our time is ours to do with as we see fit and you are in no way entitled to expect anything from anybody. I log in at night to have fun. Not to work a job where I have to be clear b***h for anyone and everyone even if I don't know them. Many people think like Izsha because it's our time you're trying to claim. Not yours.

While I've never been a part of a sold run I definitely understand where they come from. They put time and effort to learn these runs and their time is valuable to them after a hard day raising children or working in the real world. If they put a price on their time and someone is willing to pay it then it's non of your business what so ever. Stop trying to tell people how to play the game.

If you want wins cultivate a base of helpful friends. Put party finders up and have patience. Coming to this forum and complaining at the people who can win the fight because you perceive they aren't helping is the most entitled thing I've ever seen on these forums. They don't owe you a single thing what-so-ever.

[MeiUshu]

when you know that some people refer to others as *inferior* players, you understand that if you want something done you will have to suffer through DF for days, and especially understand that you cant rely on nobody, not even your fellow FC friends / members, if you are not part of their original group you are just an umber, not worth their time, one thing I will never do though, is pay any gils for this. I prefer to do it over and over and over and over for days/months in a row then just pay for this. Currently at T5, not sure I can pass that but hey who knows, I might get lucky.

Enjoy your game, dont take it personal if you acnt pass it, even end content can be done, and even if you are a casual, what I am too....anything can be done with patience.

Mei

[Monty]

This is why I've given up on end game completely. As a shift worker it's impossible to make a static and unreasonable to expect 7 others to follow your rotating schedule. What's more annoying is how terrible the general player base is at this game. Most good players, see mechanic, learn mechanic, avoid mechanic, progress. With the PF, it seems they see it, but don't learn anything! They just keep running into it, over and over and over. You try to nicely bring it up, and people get highly defensive.


You then unfortunately have people who have been carried, think they're good and are in fact horrid. Since they've completed X content though, they must be good, and also take offense to everything you say. I still think they should implement content as difficult as Coil with 4 man parties which would allow people with wonky schedules more flexibility. Do I have 3 good friends in game that would agree to run whenever? Yes. Do I have 7? Not really. Relying on 7 others to not be incompetent and only need 1 to be a dunce to fail a run is ridiculous. Guess there's ups and downs to MMOs and their community's. Having 98% of the player base being horrible at the game their playing is definitely a downfall.

[Atomnium]

And you doing what? Whining about their whining? People have the freedom of speech. The forums are here for them to express their frustration and protest the unethical behavior of clear sellers. There is nothing wrong with that.

I may not agree with your position, but I certainly don't tell you that you can't voice your opinion.

Actually, by replying like this while quoting a most direct sentence and skipping in the same process my whole arguments... You just did
On a side note... I didn't even talked about mercenary in my post o.O, why re you tossing it into my face?

It's not the first time I see you around, quoting some words cuted out of arguments from an obvious raider post and then spit your hates over him just because you think to be better as a person than them...

The clear sellers comes here to harass and taunt people like the OP and then spread misinformation and misdirection and doing anything and everything toe make an extra gil.

Suuure, it's a conspiracy!!!

Man, when I scroll your posting history on this forum, I see an huge frustration over raiders and raid contents in general... Is it because your only unlocked 50 job is bard? Or maybe because it got stuffed with hunts and ST only? Or more obviously that your irl schedules doesn't fit with your gaming passion :
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/6916228/
Sad part is that you actually don't always post useless comments around this forum, I saw some interesting ones related to pvp, but your point of view about end game is so inaccurate and full of hate-feelings that I really feel sorry for you.

"People have the freedom of speech" Yes, you re right, but why keep opening a large mouth about things you don't have the knowledge?

Oh... And since you put the mercenary system on the table as (according to your own words) an "unethical behavior"... Say the guy who is playing with market board to make money ^.^;; :

Massive undercuts means you get a chance at a massive windfall. Buy it up quick and sell it at the price you want and profit! Been there done that. It works good makes lots of gil easy off someone else's impatience..

This ^ for some people, playing and speculating on a virtual markets and then making profits over desperate sellers is a sort of "unethical behavior".

[AlexionSkylark]

To make it short : Please stop whining and enjoy the game at your own level.

OK, you totally missed my point.

I'll just state this here one more time, in case you have missed it on this long thread: I'm a veteran MMO player who has been raiding for several years now, having lead groups through most content of at least 2 other MMORPGs (LotRO and WoW). The difference being that my groups normally only had 1, 2 raid nights a week tops. Now, what I'm pointing up here is that this game has some differences from these other games:

1 - People fall into 2 categories: either they can commit 3+ nights a week on a static, or they won't commit at all. It's next to impossible to form a static that raids 1 night a week.
2 - Tanks are so rare to find, even more than in other games, enough so that they misteriously NEVER need to resort to PF to do content. That being said, a learning party for T6 will most likely NEVER, EVER, EVER find a tank that actually needs to learn the fight. If you tell me you know a tank that never cleared T6, I'll think you're lying.

Now, you may say "if you haven't got the time, raiding is not for you". Says WHO? I could always raid in other games, albeit progress would be slower, of course, because less hours per week. But it was POSSIBLE to raid and get SOME progress. So, what makes this game different from others?

Or, putting in a TL;DR version... "People can raid 1 night/week in other games, but in FFXIV they can't. Why? Clear sellers seem part of the problem, yes, but there are also other factors... Can we join in the think tank and pinpoint?

[NyarukoW]

...it's our time you're trying to claim.

Who is claiming whose time? The game is meant to be played together last I checked and wiping is part of the game too.

If they put a price on their time and someone is willing to pay it then it's non of your business what so ever.

It is the community we as players can build together, so it is all our business. Unethical behavior should be called out. The best way to beat the clear sellers is to help people get their clears without them. This is something the community can come together and achieve. And this is not telling people how to play the game, this advocating for people come together and help each other.

Having 98% of the player base being horrible at the game their playing is definitely a downfall.

Right now 98% haven't seen FCoB because they haven't been able to get a static to clear T9. Just like T5 was the gate and SCoB was inaccessible 6 months ago. Calling 98% of player base "horrible" does what exactly. People need the opportunity to learn and progress, and it can only be done with player being more open and more inclusive of other players. But instead we have ethically challenged folk who will turn blind eye and deaf ear to clear seller and at the same time treat newer players and newbies with contempt and disdain.

...Suuure, it's a conspiracy!!! ...

Says the so called raiders. Perhaps that is just cover people take when they are really clear sellers. But I won't equate the two and I certainly have stated there is no conspiracy. Fact remains there are ample evidence of clear sellers here, on this thread, taunting people and saying all sorts of crap. We would have to be naive to believe the that clear sellers don't have a rational reason to spread misinformation as to protect their interests.

.
... playing and speculating on a virtual markets and then making profits over desperate sellers is a sort of "unethical behavior".

Just want is unethical about speculating on the markets? I don't manipulate, collude, or corner the market. I just search for opportunities where I risk my own assets. What do clear sellers risk? The clear is guaranteed right? Certainly NO risk there. I've lost gil when I guessed wrong, live and learn. What is so unethical about buy low sell high? I am sharing a tip that people can do to help them get gil and actually works against my interest because if they follow thru with it I get extra competition, and the flipping gets harder to do. What is so unethical about that? It is not like I am communist or something but ironic as it may be everyone knows about this famous communist, Deng, saying this: "致富光荣 -- To get rich is glorious!" And people can do this on the market board competing in a fair and open way, and there is no reason to hate the undercutters.

... view about end game is so inaccurate and full of hate-feelings ...

Inaccurate? I see clear sellers advertising on the PF every time I look up the PF for something. It is a fact of life. There is no hating toward raiders. I only encourage people to be more inclusive and bring more players into the fold. SE will make content more accessible over time, but player themselves can help content become more accessible also. If this bothers the conscience of those who want to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the frustrations of others trying to form a static, then there is at least some hope that there can be progress. If those people choose to respond with hate and contempt towards newer players and newbies while gladly taking their gil, well, we are not going take that lying down. We will exercise our right to free speech and call them out.

[Exstal]

Who is claiming whose time? The game is meant to be played together last I checked and wiping is part of the game too.
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It's like you avoided the entire premise of Tiggy's post. People have no obligation to help others. Some *might* because they feel like it. Most do not have time to "relearn" content. It's really goddamn simple.

[Tiggy]

Who is claiming whose time? The game is meant to be played together last I checked and wiping is part of the game too.

Yes, it most certainly is. It's also each players prerogative to decide how they want to spend their time. If someone wants to log in for the night and they don't feel like wiping while helping someone then that's their choice and you need to learn to respect it. People value there time, and you are in zero position to demand or expect anything from them. Your posts clearly paint a picture where you expect people to help just for the fun of it. So you are a prime example of the kind of person who expects time from these other players regardless if you earned it from them. Just because the game is played together does not mean people owe you anything. That's practically the definition of entitled which google defines as "believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment." We all worked very hard for our wins and for the skills we've obtained by running tougher content. Then you expect to walk up and just get help from everyone because it's a multiplayer game and we all play together? You get no special treatment or special privileges just because we all play the same social game. Your reasoning falls flat and clearly defines your position as one of entitlement.

This is something the community can come together and achieve. And this is not telling people how to play the game, this advocating for people come together and help each other.

If you're on this forum denouncing those player selling runs, and by trying swaying them through the community as you suggest you are also effectively trying to force people to play the way you want to because you disapprove of the way they are currently doing it. Stop trying to tell people how to play. Not every person out there shares your morals, your code, or your ethics. You need a bit more "deal with it" in your life.

It's as simple as this Nyaruko. If you want people to have help then by all means. Go learn the fights and join random party finder groups and help people out yourself. I'm sure you'll become well known and respected on your server for doing such a thing if you do it enough as it is indeed a noble thing to do. However, don't expect everyone to be so selfless with their time and don't come here and rip on them for failing to do the same. This game isn't a charity. Every player doesn't want to jump into party finders all white knight style with their cape blowing in the wind.

It's like you avoided the entire premise of Tiggy's post. People have no obligation to help others. Some *might* because they feel like it. Most do not have time to "relearn" content. It's really goddamn simple.

If you see any of his other responses in other threads you'll see he does this a lot. He avoids the part of the response that raises a good argument against his position every time. Then he attempts to nitpick the most inconsequential parts of the response. Just wait. He'll do it again soon.

[craig_meredith2003]

Been following this thread for awhile. First I am very casual I get maybe 2 hrs of free time per night, so that doesn't leave me a lot of time to do any endgame. But I still get things done. I'm in no hurry to race to the end of anything. I'm very lucky tho i have a great fc when i need something done usually gets done. But I want to learn the fights not be carried at all. If I wipe 1000 times in pf/df so be it as long as some progression is being made. If player A who has beaten it wants to help that is great "teach me" if not that is fine too. Unless i'm paying them for their time it is that their time. If they want to help their choice if not their choice as well. If they want to sell wins great someone will always need it who is anybody to judge for how anyone plays unless TOS is broken. Is a win/win.

[NyarukoW]

...
If you're on this forum denouncing those player selling runs, and by trying swaying them through the community as you suggest you are also effectively trying to force people to play the way you want..

Really since when is speech equated to force? You certainly have a way to distort the facts and reality. Most of the time it will be ignored, like that crazy preacher on the side walk. But that doesn't mean the preacher doesn't have a valid message or that what they are doing is wrong. I have every right to be here denouncing the clear sellers.

.. Not every person out there shares your morals, your code, or your ethics. ..

Are we captain obvious now? I never expect people to have the same value, beliefs, or whatever else. But fact remains that the game can be better if people can work together and help each other, and being more inclusive is just a step in that direction.

And the idea that " people have no obligation to help others" is failure to understand that helping others is actually enlightened self-interest. No on can be forced to do anything because it is realistically impossible and I won't even invoke karma or anything like that. However in plain simple mathematical and probabilistic terms, the more people you can help clear the gated content, the larger the pool of players you can draw from when tackling newer content, so it will be easier to get groups and statics. It requires taking a longer view and be willing to be more patient for the return on investment. This is a strategy that can help all the players together.

The only people that are unhappy about this are those looking to divide and exploit other players. Since there is no open world PK and other atrocious crap like that, these people want to take out it on other players thru means like clear selling. Instead of having open and fair competition, they want to manipulate things so they can take advantage of the innocent. And to top if off, they have the nerve to come here crying about how they being told how to play, because they are being called out for their bad behavior.