Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Hakmatic]

Already switched to monk myself. No point in dragoon. Good luck all you goons.

[Leonus]

Already switched to monk myself. No point in dragoon. Good luck all you goons.

Why is there no point in drg?

I mean, I have switched to nin already... but then again I was going to main nin no matter what I was currently Maining once it was released.

[Sleigh]

Why is there no point in drg?

I mean, I have switched to nin already... but then again I was going to main nin no matter what I was currently Maining once it was released.

NIN directly outclasses it. NIN has:

Virtually no ramp-up
MNK level DPS
VERY high burst
Virtually no positionals, only Trick Attack (seriously, in T9 and T11+ this is a godsend)
Buffs the party a bit instead of just DRG (and since a large part of BRD DPS is in its opener, it's not even THAT huge a difference to only buff its peak DPS than all the time)
Gets buffed by freakin' Foe's a little
Can enable perma-Storm's Path from WAR if you need it
Can give TP to another player
Doesn't have piss poor magic defense
Has a teleport (so you never have to throttle DPS for movement unlike DRG)
Has a physical dodge once ability
Stacks very well with each other
... etc, etc, etc

Then you've got MNK in all its glory.

Massive DPS
Dragon Kick, which is quite valuable in T10+. There's a lot of INT based mechanics that actually hurt in the new turns
20% Mantra, this is not a joke unlike 5% Mantra
Stacks very well with each other

Where's room for DRG? In my eyes, and the eyes of groups I know, there just isn't one. DRG:

Lower sustained even after BRD buff contribution than NIN/MNK.
More or less lowest survivability of all raid members. Lowest MDEF in a game where raid damage is by and large magical, B4B and Jump capabilities of screwing you, and has to be melee in danger. There's truth to the dead DRG jokes.
Heavy positional requirement. If you cannot get to your position, your rotation is boinked and you are effectively the worst DPS until you can correct it. Sometimes mechanics just don't let that happen. MNK can just take a slight potency loss and go on its way. NIN just says LOL.
Has strong-ish AoE and multi-DoTs and burst. None of these things matter. NIN's as good or better at them anyway.

Right now it's all about MNK MNK, NIN MNK, or NIN NIN. There's no place for DRG ideally, especially in our gear. What was once considered a strong comp, DRG BRD BRD caster - the only formation DRG really truly pulls its weight - is just not competitive with melee melee BRD caster comps unfortunately.

[Bushido_Brown]

I think I'm one of the few that is glad to see every one of these people switch jobs. If poor dps is keeping any party from winning, I assure you it's not because of the 1 drg unless they are bad at their job at which case please switch to NIN to help boost your sub-par dps. Mantra has never saved a raid I've been in, ever, and if it does for any other groups it was because everyone was getting hit by things they shouldn't. Have fun trying to get into pugs that already have their NIN spots filled.

[rickyguo]

I think I'm one of the few that is glad to see every one of these people switch jobs. If poor dps is keeping any party from winning, I assure you it's not because of the 1 drg unless they are bad at their job at which case please switch to NIN to help boost your sub-par dps. Mantra has never saved a raid I've been in, ever, and if it does for any other groups it was because everyone was getting hit by things they shouldn't. Have fun trying to get into pugs that already have their NIN spots filled.

have you noticed that both groups that beat the t13 enrage ran double monk?

dps disparities are more noticeable when you're undergeared for content and on the forefront of progression. I never said that DRG wasn't viable as the dps different isn't that big but it's still there and there's just no benefits to it. Yes, if you go in t10 or t13 a month later with like i120 and i130 weapons then yeah, it doesn't matter what class you have.

I have 4 pentamelded crafted pieces, and I'm maxing damage how ever possible and enrage is still an issue.

Once again, mantra and dragonkick debuff doesn't save raids usually but it saves the healer mana and helps. It's also way more noticeable when you're pushing progression than when you're i120 with an extra 1k hp or something.

I mean, even if you could beat all the current content as a DRG which it probably is possible, there's no still actual benefits in going as a DRG over monk or ninja as you do less damage, take more damage and have zero utility. Disembowel doesn't count as utility, it's a straight dps buff which still puts us below the other 2 melees.

I been maining DRG since 2.0 and the reason I still play it is because I enjoy it even though I know that going monk or ninja will benefit my group more in every single way.

[Bushido_Brown]

snip

Think back when we were running through your hunting log while leveling up a class, we all tried to kill that beast at the bottom of the list that was 10 levels above us, right?

Its great to see people beating the new content within the first week of release, but I'm not in a hurry, I never bother with spending my gil or time on overmelded craft gear since its worthless once i get a loot drop to replace it, but different strokes for different folks.

Typically, the issue with a particular instance in the beginning is that we're still learning the mechanics, then once they become muscle-memory we are able to maximize our dps (not talking about parsing for 3 minutes to get some crazy 500000000dps result that doesn't mean anything for a fight that's over 10 minutes other than to brag about fully buffed DPS that discounts skill and potion CDs).

[Hakmatic]

I think I'm one of the few that is glad to see every one of these people switch jobs. If poor dps is keeping any party from winning, I assure you it's not because of the 1 drg unless they are bad at their job at which case please switch to NIN to help boost your sub-par dps. .

I played Dragoon for a long time and I consider myself one of the top dragoons. This has nothing to do with dragoon isnt enough dps or not good enough. It about progression. I play to raid, right now MNK/NIN out class dragoon in ever way. The utility+DPS they offer is far past what dragoon brings to the table for progression raid groups. When dragoons get the love they deserve ill switch back but for now Monk brings so much more to progression than dragoon especially for single melee groups like mine. So get outta here with this sub par dps bullshit lol not even going comment on the difference in the 2 mantras.

[beowulf81]

I played Dragoon for a long time ...

I have to say.... this, along with the posts from ricky, sleigh and others have really, really depressed me (in regards to this game of course). I've lurked this thread for a while, and drawn inspiration from the work you and others here have done; it has restored my belief in dragoon as a viable job whenever that belief has wavered, and i would give this thread and your work tremendous credit in me being one of, if not the the, top dps'ers in my static.

I cannot fault the reasons you and others have given for your switch, and begrudgingly, it is becoming more and more apparant that i will have to do the same. I simply cannot gimp my static and prevent progression by playing a job that, as it is becoming increasingly clear, will hinder our progression.

My only question; has anyone raised this concern with SquareEnix, the dev team, or Yoshi? I remember back when Warrior was found to be a gimp tank for endgame, they buffed the class in 2.2 to make it viable. Yet here we are in 2.4, Dragoons are gimped on jump roots, overall dps even if rotation and positionals are hit perfectly, and horrid, horrid mdef that results in ridiculous damage (i remember losing 6k in health and dying on a REX run where a blm ran into my thunderstruck with his). Dragoon is a gimp job for endgame, and given how quick the dev team have been in the past to address balance issues I am somewhat astounded that they have failed to address the weakness of the Dragoon job.

I really love this game; I really love the dragoon job. But I do not want to play that job, and to be honest, i will not want to play this game, if that job, the one that i feel the most affinity for, that i play the best, is going to remain an endgame progression joke, a drain on the rest of the team. I'm not saying this to make an ultimatum, its just how i really feel, and i cannot be alone on this.

Has anyone heard any feedback from the dev team that they will address this?