Things that need to change for the better

[MeowyWowie]

Opinions. Regardless, they were changed years later so it doesn't even matter. I also retracted one of my statements about the r45 dungeon so that need not be discussed anymore =)

They were changed years later because most people completed it by then and it was difficult for players who have not yet completed it to find groups to do so. So they made it easier and more accessible for those players to catch up.

Just to clear up any misconceptions about that.

[Santrale]

You obviously didn't read my post regarding that then. I clearly stated that SOME of the missions were broken, but I never said they were impossible. The 2 missions that I mention specifically are mammets and airship. Everything else was fine.

Yeah the mammet fight was ridiculous. And it wasn't broken or challenging-it was stupid. You needed certain classes to do any story in XI and if you weren't those classes you didn't get to enjoy any story. I guess no one cared in XI, but as an RPG fan I did. Yet after the mammet fight I stopped caring about the idiotic adventures of alma and prishe or even following the story. I stopped doing it till I lvled drg, and then I HAD to get the raja's ring to even be wanted in any team situation as well as other dumb hoops to jump through to get proper gear, and don't say go to the AH, a drg couldn't without spending millions, even then they still wouldn't equal even an AH samurai. I guess it's fine if you like the trend of all these jobs being the end all be all, and not enjoying the ones you've picked to play, or if you're not interested in the ones people all highly desire. No one played XI as an RPG it was like a FPS thing with exp... they ignored the story and only wanted rewards, I know why I did that's because it's hard to keep interest when the last CS you saw was 6 months prior. In any case, I've had it with the debate, if hardcore players want to make this game into another Time Vampire XI, whatever. Take action someone said? Do what, we're not the ones who have the final say in the end and SE will do what is more profitable. Which is to keep the player wasting time doing things so they can do the real things they want to in a game. Sounds like not much time but why not log your idle time seeking party, or any other time you've spent doing something that felt more like work than play, and then compare it at the end to see how much the ridiculous system has stolen from you. Bye!

[Preypacer]

So...I take it you're one of those that thinks Pandemonium Warden was perfectly fine in FFXI? You know...the NM that only like...5% of the community had beaten? Looks like we have the same situation here. Does this mean that 95% of the players in this game are just terrible and need to quit? No. It means that you need to grow up and show some freaking respect for once. There is obviously something wrong if only a handful of people can complete this thing and even then, they had to try multiple times and had to have the perfect setup. You almost have to be a complete elitist to do the current 45 dungeon.

Have 95% of the community in XI even attempted to fight PW yet? Are 95% of the community verifiably interested in fighting PW to begin with? Of that 95% that hasn't defeated him *yet*, how many will at some point in the future, instead of giving up? I know I was never interested in fighting him. I know plenty of people who weren't either. I know others who thought it would be cool if they did, but weren't feeling "left out" of anything if they didn't.

The same thing applies to this dungeon. Are 95% of the community even at a point where they could attempt him if they wanted to? Are 95% interested in fighting him? Of that 95% how many of them simply haven't beaten him yet, but will once they've had the opportunity?

There are far too many variables involved with that 95% you speak of for you to make any kind of definitive argument based on it.

In order for a statistic like 95% of the population to have any meaning what-so-ever, you'd have to first figure out what percentage of the community even *wants* to fight and defeat the thing to begin with.

You don't know those statistics, nor could you. So, attempting to build an argument on such assumed data is pure conjecture.

Serious question for you.. Not trolling what-so-ever.

When people like MeowieWowie and others have faced the same exact mobs in the same exact location under the same exact circumstances (ie. ogre uses the same attacks, ghosts use the same attacks, etc), and have successfully defeated it, multiple times, even posting videos and screenshots of it, how can you conclude anything other than that your group is simply not doing something correctly during the fight?

Occam's Razor paraphrased: All things being equal, the simplest solution is usually the right one.

Considering this fight is the same (or equal) for all who take it on, the simplest solution as to why some are defeating it while you and others aren't, is that some are successfully executing an effective strategy, while some aren't.

If your mages are taking 1k+ damage from an attack that Meowie's mages only incur ~500 or so from, then that should raise an immediate red flag. The better question to ask, to me, is "How are your mages equipped/buffed prior to going into the fight?" There's obviously something different between his mages' setup and yours if the difference in damage is that great. That one detail could make all the difference for you.

It could be something like poor timing.

I'm gonna totally not go out on a limb here and assume that Meowie and those in his group, along with others who have successfully defeated the ogre are not super-human, possessing skills that no other mere mortal can dream of having.

They figured out a strategy that works, they've executed that strategy and they've succeeded.

If Meowie and others have done it without SE having to even "slightly nerf" it, then so can you and your group.

Shit.. if I were at the point where I could fight the thing and I was having that much trouble, I'd be trying to pick Meowie's brain to get some kind of tips or any kind of info that would help me figure out what I'm not doing that he did, or vice versa.

I wouldn't be throwing up the white flag and basically admitting defeat by asking SE to make it easier, even by "a little bit".

My point is... If people are succeeding at the fight as-is, then there's no need to nerf it because it's clearly quite possible as-is.

[Preypacer]

it isn't the mechanics, derp. A mob that spams AoEs from the start is completely broken and a ENM system that doesn't allow for a single cure without the hate meter being completely shifted is completely broken. Go level, try the dungeon, then get back to me.

Then explain why others are facing that same AOE opening attack and using that same ENM system and succeeding.

If the system is broken, why have others been able to successfully, and consistently, defeat it regardless?

What is so special about others playing this game that they can do something you can't?

[Synfrag]

Sounds like not much time but why not log your idle time seeking party, or any other time you've spent doing something that felt more like work than play, and then compare it at the end to see how much the ridiculous system has stolen from you. Bye!

If only people would just smoke more weed it would make this time go by much faster between patches.

[Dubont]

If only people would just smoke more weed it would make this time go by much faster between patches.

agreed...lol

[Dubont]

Then explain why others are facing that same AOE opening attack and using that same ENM system and succeeding.

If the system is broken, why have others been able to successfully, and consistently, defeat it regardless?

What is so special about others playing this game that they can do something you can't?

read a few of my recent comments please, rather than taking stuff from the first 5 pages.

[Raze]

Here's a question:

Why when people beat content they're "elitist", which is derogatory, but people who can't even get close to a win, why can't we say they suck? If you can think of a better term than "suck" feel free, like "incompetent" or something, but I don't get why people can get away with calling everyone elitist by default and then get all upset when the obvious conclusion is that they blow.

[MeowyWowie]

Here's a question:

Why when people beat content they're "elitist", which is derogatory, but people who can't even get close to a win, why can't we say they suck? If you can think of a better term than "suck" feel free, like "incompetent" or something, but I don't get why people can get away with calling everyone elitist by default and then get all upset when the obvious conclusion is that they blow.

Reverse hypocrisy? (Does that even exist?) Idk, but good point lol.

[Preypacer]

read a few of my recent comments please, rather than taking stuff from the first 5 pages.

I'm reading the pages in order (helps with continuity and all), and that particular post struck a chord with me.

I see you've come around a bit on your thinking... So... that's good!