The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Fornix]

Wouldn't be that a nice solution?

A casual version of coil for the casuals

AND, on the other side

A coil like difficult version of CT for the others.

More content for everybody.

Haven't played WoW since early Cataclysm. However, back then WoW just as well had these issues. Even with a hard mode raid and regular mode raid, people still failed to find groups for the normal modes. Based on gearscore they'd quickly be kicked, etc. Many claimed the fights were too hard in the normal mode. Etc.

I've never experienced the raid finder raids, so perhaps that those are a pushover with a difficulty of ST/CT runs here. Can't say.

[Keres]

Haven't played WoW since early Cataclysm. However, back then WoW just as well had these issues. Even with a hard mode raid and regular mode raid, people still failed to find groups for the normal modes. Based on gearscore they'd quickly be kicked, etc. Many claimed the fights were too hard in the normal mode. Etc.

I've never experienced the raid finder raids, so perhaps that those are a pushover with a difficulty of ST/CT runs here. Can't say.

LFR is pretty similar in difficulty to CT/ST, I'd say. It's a low-stakes way to at least see the content, and you can only get a significantly lower-tier version of the raid's loot to match. I think it's a good solution, and as someone who doesn't have the room in his life for a scheduled static right now, I'd like to see something like that added, so I can at least see the Coil storyline and experience a toned-down version of the encounters while they're still current.

WoW also added flex raiding, where you can take in anywhere between 10-30 people and the raid will scale in difficulty based on the number of people you have, which is also a decent way to get around the "8-person static, no more, no less" problem that can cause issues within groups of friends that want to play together.

[RedAntares]

I haven't done a single coil since I unlocked it and not really looking forward to it (I guess I'm more casual than you xD), I might start doing it in the future but right now I'm not that interested in it beacuse some people seem to look down on others for not knowing the fight or some mechanics even after you said to them that's it's your first time or that you are goin in as a learning party.

The only solution I see to this is to go with your FC friends and ask them to teach you the fight and learn as you go or make your own static that can meet your play shedule since it seems some of the fights in there are really hard for PuGs.

[AlexionSkylark]

Just to address all the people saying "it's hardcore content, BEATCH! have the schedule to put in the 10h+/week I did or scram!" I'll just say this...

Who says I don't want to put in the effort? If it was possible, I would form a static that could fit in my schedules (That would be 1 night a week). It'd take us a fuckton of weeks to clear the dungeon maybe, but I really do not care about that. I TRIED to do that, but everyone I encountered only accepted entering a static if it were to raid at least 3 nights a week. And NOW, in 2.4, where SCoB is not the current content anymore, you guys really think such a static would be possible?

The attitude I'm making this topic about is of people who join a learning party KNOWING it's a learning party and then leaving after the 3rd wipe cursing the party mates for being awful. And to try and understand why it is so impossible to find a tank willing to join a learning party. Are tanks so rare they they ALL have completed coil? Is there any tank out there who wasn't able to do SCoB yet?

[NyarukoW]

... We're just big fat meanie heads!

You are saying that yourself. NO one is saying that. You just want to use that as an excuse to insult everyone else.

...They'd rather put their foot on our necks and make us pay those ditty jackals!"

Well do you sell clears or not? If you don't want to be sympathetic, no one can make you. But if you sell clears, people have right to protest your poor ethics. If you feel guilty because there is still a tiny shred of decency in you, you can do something about it, like try to be sympathetic and try to teach the newer players.

No you idiot....

Where do you get off calling people names?

..We just don't want to drudge through content watching you make the same mistakes we did for HUNDREDS OF HOURS already. ...

No one is making you do anything. It would be helpful if you could lend a hand, but if you don't want to do that, there not much we can do about it. But absolutely do NOT come here and harass the OP and call people names.

[Noshpan]

I haven't done a single coil since I unlocked it and not really looking forward to it (I guess I'm more casual than you xD), I might start doing it in the future but right now I'm not that interested in it beacuse some people seem to look down on others for not knowing the fight or some mechanics even after you said to them that's it's your first time or that you are goin in as a learning party.

The only solution I see to this is to go with your FC friends and ask them to teach you the fight and learn as you go or make your own static that can meet your play shedule since it seems some of the fights in there are really hard for PuGs.

Well, Turns 1-4 isn't all that bad, especially with Echo. Though there are not many who do Turns 3 and 5 (they don't offer anything, not even Nexus or it's just a pain in the hind-end and Echo makes it worse). Though I have seen some turn Turn 3 into a drinking game (not that I'm saying that you should!).

[Izsha]

You are really missing the forest for the trees. There are a number of comments in these types of threads that invariably pop up. (Pulling quotes from multiple pages is annoying on a phone) I can dig them up manually but that shouldn't be necessary. This is in response to the idea that raiders are ACTIVELY forcing people to buy their runs by NOT helping them win for free (read taking hours of their time to train complete strangers). There is this odd idea that raiders are in on some conspiracy to make money by not helping. The truth is we spend hundreds of hours learning and practicing this stuff so we don't want to just join t5 PF all night because we got better stuff to do than rehash old stuff (like go see the NEW content instead).

The idea consistently floats around and has been parroted in this very thread that we don't 'help' because we're selfish and greedy. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous this conspiracy theory is. Reality is we have better shit to do than conspire against the casual crowd, like new cutting edge content. Just because we don't spend our evenings training people for zero benefit of any kind to ourselves doesn't suddenly make our motives malicious.
______________________
Edit: im not here to fight over the ethics of selling runs. That is a different issue entirely in principle. I am explicitly responding to the idea that we don't help to force people to buy runs.

You'll notice I didn't quote someone and say "you idiot". It is directed at the thought process of "they won't help me because they are mean, greedy conspiritors" because that is really dumb. I already described the reality of why raiders don't jump up to assist. The idea it's all malicious is ridiculous.

[Kazumac]

I'm actually happy with the way coil was designed. I'm a filthy casual now too after I quit my static due to a work time schedule after doing the first two bosses in SCOB. I've helped my casual FC get through T5 and primal extremes through 2.3 and we are working on second coil now. We have a decent network of extended friends that we make our own groups use PF etc but we by no means have a static nor do we spend 3 nights a week in coil. We will see all of coil even as casuals we just will be a main patch behind or so... I'm good with that

What it has taken is me and another FC member being proactive about getting groups together and leading these runs. We've made lots of friends along the way using PF too. Go from the seeking learning party mentality to the starting a learning party mentality and use that to grow your set of friends who are your go tos when setting up coil and ex primal runs.

[NyarukoW]

.... are in on some conspiracy to make money by not helping. ..

Nobody is talking about conspiracy theories other than you. This another strawman you like to make up and then use that to get mad at everyone else.

Just because we don't spend our evenings training people for zero benefit of any kind to ourselves doesn't suddenly make our motives malicious.

Just apathy and indifference. And yet T6-9 clears are still being sold for multi-mils. Sure turn a deaf ear and blind eye to it all. You may not the source of the problem, but that attitude sure guarantees that you are not going to be the solution either. Furthermore, you come here to insult people as your posts have demonstrated many times over, you are causing collateral damage unrelated to the problem.

[Zarzak]

Simple answer.

Raid content isn't for casual players.

Though in FFXIV they give raid quality loot out to solo content so /shrug