Red Mage - A DoM Tank Job?

[Rosalynd]

Rosalynd, its the same in FFXI - and besides, why would you completely ignore SE's vision for the class?

A: XI had a release stigma that impeeded the red mage for the duration of the game, the same sort of stigma that paladins and shaman suffered in vanilla WoW. Though in an odd compliment to WoW, their community got over that stigma, you clearly have not.

B: XI's vision of classes was heavily influenced by the community, such as ninja tanks. Not to mention that XI butchered the red mage more thoroughly than XIV just recently butchered the Dark Knight.

C: This is an entirely new FF game with its own spin on classes (evidenced by the butchering of the Dark Knight, Bard and Summoner), the red mage could end up fighting in melee using a rapier in one hand and a magitek shotgun / pistol in the other (shoots magic damage based bullets) and as long as they call that a red mage, it is a red mage.

[Noll]

A good way of implementing rdm ad DPS would be to make him chain spells after his melee combo.
I'd still prefer rdm to have an healer role tho'

[Duelle]

A: XI had a release stigma that impeeded the red mage for the duration of the game, the same sort of stigma that paladins and shaman suffered in vanilla WoW. Though in an odd compliment to WoW, their community got over that stigma, you clearly have not.

Gotta give credit where it is due. The reason WoW's community got over the stigma was because the developers revamped all hybrids to spec into a role in the trinity (thus making the subpar tank specs and the DPS specs raid-viable). And that was prompted by posts, feedback and arguments presented by the Druid, Shaman and Paladin communities. After the changes no serious raid leader could laugh at an enhance shaman or ret paladin, as they went from being jokes to viable members in a raid.

Prior to that you either tried to hide what you were (I've tanked dungeons during TBC where ret paladins would try to pretend they were warriors just so that they wouldn't get booted from the party for being lolret) or comformed to the whims of the hive mind and heal-bitched your way into raids.

[Shori]

i dont see rdm being DoW if its a tank for one major reason - spell interuptions from taking damage.
unless some of the magic or skills prevented you from taking damage for a split second? *shrugs*

[Rosalynd]

Gotta give credit where it is due. The reason WoW's community got over the stigma was because the developers revamped all hybrids to spec into a role in the trinity (thus making the subpar tank specs and the DPS specs raid-viable). And that was prompted by posts, feedback and arguments presented by the Druid, Shaman and Paladin communities.

Prior to that you either tried to hide what you were (I've tanked dungeons during TBC where ret paladins would try to pretend they were warriors just so that they wouldn't get booted from the party for being lolret) or comformed to the whims of the hive mind and heal-bitched your way into raids.

Aye, it kinda says something when their community got those changes made and other communities could not.

[GalkaBikini]

in wich universe have you seen that ?

http://youtu.be/SuWhSMUSHfA?t=38m1s --- Here's some SUPERB RDM melee in FF1.

http://youtu.be/LEzSkgaL_qM?t=12m56s --- As much as I hate to use this example (Abyssea), just read the combat log for Fahros(RDM) and Triedge(WAR).
WAR hits for 197.
WAR hits for 224 (retaliation, and then for some derp reason uses Armor Break. Imagine what his best WS would've done?)
RDM misses his mainhand swing and hits with his offhand for 93.
RDM then misses both mainhand and offhands wings.
WAR misses.
RDM crits mainhand for 100, misses with offhand.
WAR crits for FIVE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SIX.
RDM crits for 135 main, misses with offhand.
WAR gets a double attack, misses the first and crits the second for 478.
RDM then misses both swings.

As I said, I hate this example since it's abyssea, there's atma, I don't know these people or what gear they are wearing (it's been a long time, that RDM obviously isn't wearing accuracy gear though), or what level they are, and the RDM isn't using enspell, this is an EXP PT and not end-game content, etc etc etc, but even in the Zilart and CoP eras, these numbers pretty much scale the same. The RDM is doing God awful melee, and the real melee is owning it up.

Do I need to find a FF5 video too?

[GalkaBikini]

The defining aspects of RDM are not its being a generalist, but the fact that it's a sword & magic hybrid. Doublecast doesn't make a RDM. Enfeebles don't make a RDM. Refresh and Haste don't make a RDM. Sword, black magic and white magic rolled into one are what make a RDM.

How many times does it have to be said? RDM is a hybrid white and black magic user, who CAN do very mediocre melee damage. Where, in all of that, is a class that can do 5% less melee damage than that of a real melee DPS class?

And LOL, have fun healing yourself for 2K on your ret pally when things do 10 times that amount of damage. I'm starting to wonder if you even actually play video games, honestly.

[GalkaBikini]

A: XI had a release stigma that impeeded the red mage for the duration of the game, the same sort of stigma that paladins and shaman suffered in vanilla WoW. Though in an odd compliment to WoW, their community got over that stigma, you clearly have not.

No, there was no stigma. SE created the game, their vision was obvious to intelligent players who played the game and the class properly. Paladins and Shaman didn't "suffer" in WoW, either, where did you come up with that? I mean heck, they were 2 of the most played classes in the game for good reason (because in Vanilla WoW, hybrids were overpowered). YOUR vision of SE's RDM isn't the same as theirs.

And lol, you're one of those that think DRK isn't a tank too. Awesome, not surprised. You heard it here guys. RDM is a melee powerhouse and DRK isn't a tank!

[Rosalynd]

How many times does it have to be said? RDM is a hybrid white and black magic user, who CAN do very mediocre melee damage. Where, in all of that, is a class that can do 5% less melee damage than that of a real melee DPS class?

And LOL, have fun healing yourself for 2K on your ret pally when things do 10 times that amount of damage. I'm starting to wonder if you even actually play video games, honestly.

Ya know, now i think this guy is simply trolling. Best to ignore it from here on i think.

[Duelle]

Ya know, now i think this guy is simply trolling. Best to ignore it from here on i think.

Noted and done.