Red Mage - A DoM Tank Job?

[GalkaBikini]

Rosalynd, I just linked videos PROVING YOU WRONG, you can either provide counter-proof, or, like I said, you can continue to long for something that DOES NOT EXIST. I'm not the one that's unsatisfied. I'm actually in touch with reality.

[Rosalynd]

Rosalynd, I just linked videos PROVING YOU WRONG, you can either provide counter-proof, or, like I said, you can continue to long for something that DOES NOT EXIST. I'm not the one that's unsatisfied. I'm actually in touch with reality.

You are proving the wrong thing though, at least not to me. Red mages CAN melee, they arent anywhere near as good as other melee fighters yes, but they can still melee.

They can also wear armour, that isnt as good as what tanks wear. They can also cast offensive magic that again, isnt as good as what other casters have. And, you guessed it, they can heal as well, but nowhere near as good as other healers.

They are a jack of all trades and master of none. This does NOT relegate them to the back row healing and buffing like you seem to think they should though.

Also.... Vanilla hybrids were never OP outside a few bugs that got hotfixed within hours (reckoning bombs) or using legendary weapons.

[Kuwagami]

You really need to reconsider what mediocre means. just so you know, being a jack of all trades MEANS yyou won't be as good as specialized jobs.

I proved that RDM have nearly equal stats in melee and magic in most occurences, you answered by saying that it's worse than specialized melee. you miss the point by THAT much...

Also, way to counter argument with only 2 occurences, even if they had been accurate.


Edit : ninja'ed

[Rosalynd]

ninja'ed

Hah, sorry. Take solace in the fact you arent the only one thinking this way at least :P

[GalkaBikini]

This does NOT relegate them to the back row healing and buffing like you seem to think they should though.

Yes, yes it does. RDM got some of the best buffs and debuffs in the game (I don't like anything past CoP, so I'm referring to that era). So yes, it makes perfect sense for it to stand in the back and cast spells. Why would it not, when all the other melees put RDM melee to shame? Not to mention the RDM is just feeding the mob TP... Instead they should be supporting everyone else. Debuff mob, haste melees, refresh mages.

In that FFXI video I linked, the RDM should have hasted the WAR and cast Blizzard 4 and Aspir on the worm. That is what an efficient, intelligent, GOOD PLAYER/RED MAGE would've done. And that is what SE would've expected them to do as well.

[LineageRazor]

Enspells was a step in the right direction but they never took it further, much to the job's detriment. The saddest part is that it was the ideal way to let the job close the gap between it and the other melee DPS. Simply put, if a brute force guy deals 20 physical damage with a sword, a red mage would deal 10 physical damage with a sword and 10 magical damage through a sword enchant (the 10 extra damage could also come from a self-buff that allows the Red Mage to hit harder or even weaving spells with sword strikes). The gap is nonexistent despite the brute force guy being physically stronger than the red mage, and that's the idea that should be followed.

I agree with this, to a degree. Though, you do have to consideration the fact that while the RDM is casting their Enspell, the brute force guy has already hit the mob once or twice. If your RDM is going to cast ANYTHING ELSE, that also needs to be factored in. And if you refactor to consider a RDM is going to cast a cure spell or two, then suddenly your RDM is dealing MORE damage than the brute force guy, as long as he DOESN'T cast a cure - and since dealing damage is all brute force guy can do, brute force guy is understandably bitter. It's a very difficult thing to balance.

I think that FFXIV has a lot of promise as a venue that can manage this balance from an MMO perspective - but I also think that the result will displease a lot of people. If done as a DPS, they will be have spells and abilities that put them on par with other DPS, but their curing and tanking abilities will be lackluster or even nonexistent.

Personally, this is something I can accept, as it would add something to the game that we currently lack: a front-line DoM DPS. Of course, we currently lack a front-line DoM anything, and RDM could fill the Healer/support role or the tank role - but whatever role it fills, RDM enthusiasts are just going to have to accept that its ability to fill the other roles are going to be downplayed. A RDM tank or DPS might get a modest Cure spell on a six minute recast, for instance, and that would be the extent of their healer/support.