Red Mage - A DoM Tank Job?

[GalkaBikini]

Radicci, lol. Not once did I mention FFXI in my post, we were mostly talking about the single player games. Goodness.

Wildsprite, you are wrong. It's simple math, and if you're not good at math, then I can definitely see how you might not understand the most efficient ways to play a RDM. RDM crappy melee damage means nothing when real melee classes are auto attacking up to 5 times harder than you are. If your RDM was meleeing Nidhogg, you are not a good player or RDM. If you are meleeing as a RDM in meta-game content, you are playing poorly, end of story.

All of the above discussions matter depending on which game we're talking about, and what level on content we're talking about.

[Radacci]

Radicci, lol. Not once did I mention FFXI in my post, we were mostly talking about the single player games. Goodness.

i misquoted "not to mention this is going on while people are taking damage, and the RDM isn't healing anyone because showing off is more important to him." if you're showing off to other ppl, then i'm assuming you're talking about XI. or are you talking about showing off to your single-player companions?
other games don't matter, it's pointless to discuss their mechanics, in XIV forum; if you want to discuss RDM, do it from a XIV perspective.
From a XIV perspective, all physical DD, have about the same DPS. or isn't MNK a real melee, cause DRG hits harder? Bows are the 2nd weakest wep, in game...so i guess BRD is really shitty DD?
if they make RDM into melee DD, it will be as good as any other DD, so other games don't matter; there's no such thing as *how RDM SHOULD be played* there's just how they make it work, in XIV.

[Redgate]

sic

So basically you want RDM to be another WHM because you don't understand why people actually like Red Mage, and because you used Red Mage in a certain way?

Am I getting this right?

Because if that's the case, how about you just don't invite RDM to your party, and never play it if it sucks that much to you, and let me have the class I actually want?

[GalkaBikini]

I've never once said in this thread what I want for RDM. I've only reiterated what it actually has been in the series so far. But Redgate, since you asked, I'd like to see RDM be SE's vision for the class, not the player's vision. And I didn't use RDM a "certain" way. I used it the most effective way.

I've met so many hilarious red mages that just want to melee and not even cast any spells. It's amazing. If you want to be a flashy melee why not play DRG or NIN instead?

[Duelle]

The one thing that RDM has ALWAYS had is both white magic, black magic and a sword.

Fixed.

It's annoying when you're trying to do content and some RDM wants to come in and swing his rinky dink sword for subpar damage when the real melees (samurai, dragoon, etc) are tripling or more the amount of damage a RDM is doing - not to mention this is going on while people are taking damage, and the RDM isn't healing anyone because showing off is more important to him.

You do know that this was more due to battle engine limitations, right? Turn-based RPGs don't require nor support hybrid gameplay per se. By extension neither did FFXI since, like the console RPGs, it treated everything as standalone elements and the hybrid jobs basically had said elements without anything to make them mesh nor emphasize ability synergy.

The story changes when you have a battle system that supports a hybrid class while having it take up one of the roles in the trinity. By this token, RDM doesn't need self buffs, doesn't need debuffs, and doesn't need crap like Refresh. All it needs is sword, offensive magic, healing magic and mechanics that make the three interact and you'd have a solid and proper interpretation of this job that can fit into an MMO without becoming that thing from FFXI.

[GalkaBikini]

It's like I said, of course RDM CAN do those things. But while your RDM is buffing itself so that it can actually be effective in melee, your other melees have already had their turns and are way ahead of the RDM in damage. So what's the point? Anytime I've ever used a RDM in any of those games, it's always been my ONLY healer, because that is the most effective use you can get out of it. When it doesn't have to heal, it can cast buffs and debuffs, or nukes. That's what a real red mage is.

[Wildsprite]

It's like I said, of course RDM CAN do those things. But while your RDM is buffing itself so that it can actually be effective in melee, your other melees have already had their turns and are way ahead of the RDM in damage. So what's the point? Anytime I've ever used a RDM in any of those games, it's always been my ONLY healer, because that is the most effective use you can get out of it. When it doesn't have to heal, it can cast buffs and debuffs, or nukes. That's what a real red mage is.

please keep this line of thinking to yourself.
RDM has always been more than a caster in every instance of it. putting it backline and making it a healer/buffer/debuffer/nuker is a mistake.
in their first MMO Final Fantasy XI RDM was a very effective tank and DPS. it could take the role of almost any other job. making it just a healer or a nuker/buffer in that game, you aren't taking advantage of its abilities. you claim it has those rinkidink swords that do little damage. well how about this, you know those en spells? those are entirely damage with no TP build for the enemy. with some enemies you didn't want to give them TP because that spelled doom for you. that was FFXI.

now we move on to FFXIV. a whole new game that shares some character models with its predecessor but that is about it.
they are still trying to figure out how to fit hybrid jobs into their system so I doubt we will see RDM for some time. I suspect when we do it will be more than just a caster just like it has always been. and I truly hope they do give us the tanking aspect with it in this game.
and I suspect we will see some instance of BLU after that point but it is hard to say.

[GalkaBikini]

Yeah Duelle, RDM has a sword, but why swing with it when you can do 10 times the amount of damage with a nuke?

[Duelle]

Yeah Duelle, RDM has a sword, but why swing with it when you can do 10 times the amount of damage with a nuke?

Again, you're looking at a system where everything was standalone and the rules were pretty much blanket rules without individual scaling per job.

Wanting RDM to be less of this and more of this is not a bad thing, by the way.

[GalkaBikini]

See what I mean? This topic can hardly be discussed without people getting their feelings hurt. When SE finally releases the class, its going to be a T total crapstorm. Duelle, there's also nothing wrong with people wanting RDM to be what it actually is: a supportive hybrid.