It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

[Exstal]

Pretty sure there are more people who haven't cleared T5 than people who cleared T9 so all this talk about stoppping current development is pretty funny considering Coil 3 would be experienced by few people.

Which is likely intended. If too high of a percentage of people reach these fights it means the fights were too easy and that their "hardcore" base would simply vanish.

[saeedaisspecial]

People need to stop and think for a moment what they're asking for.
I mean really think about it.

Take a look at the level of difficulty in Leviathan/Ramuh hard vs the "other" hard mode primals. Then take a look at all of their extreme counterparts.
The number of mechanics used in Leviathan and Ramuh hard are ridiculous by comparison, almost none are used. They do not teach you much about their mechanics at all on your average first run through them. They even use less mechanics than Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, or Moogle. They teach you almost nothing.
We've now got people on the forums complaining that the fights in the game (whilst leveling up and unlocking content at end game) do not prepare you for Twintania or other end game fights.
We also have people complaining that no one does these fights (Leviathan/Ramuh hard) anymore because once they've completed it, they've no reason to do so, resulting in larger queue times. It's become so apparent this is the case that the devs even addressed this in one of the recent live letters.
Is this what you want? That's exactly what you're asking for, a fight with no rewards, no reason to do it after the first time you've completed it, a fight that doesn't even teach you.

Asking for all this broken, watered down content is only really harming the game. Instead of encouraging you to learn and improve, it's going to turn the player base into an idiocracy, where no one can really accomplish much short of "the 5%". People who refuse to learn, who don't want to understand the game or get better are the people preventing the game from becoming any more complex than it already is currently. Yoshi himself has said he's afraid of including things like pure support jobs, or "complex" jobs like Blue Mage because he's afraid the player base would find it too difficult to play with.

So think, please think. Is this really the path you want to proceed down?

[Dannythm]

snip

The game is already casual, as was intended since it's conception as I've already said some posts early, it's not something I like, but there are other games that offer challenge, so no conceptual problem there.

Also, if you read some posts back, Yoshi already said that something like what OP is proposing is already in their mind, so it's happening, and SE is most likely already spending resources on it, for the disgust of many of the posters in this thread.

[Moqi]

Which is likely intended. If too high of a percentage of people reach these fights it means the fights were too easy and that their "hardcore" base would simply vanish.

Not that I'd cry over it. Point was, story mode would probably be enjoyed by more people than Coil 3, so it'd be hardly a waste of time for those 4 noobs who can't clear it yet like some are trying to make it sounds. It's just more mirror climbing because there isn't really any argument against it since it doesn't impact those who already cleared it in any way.

It'd be like (new) Primals HM: no rewards, just to progress the story, yet I don't see anyone complaining about those.

[Shioban]

Not that I'd cry over it. Point was, story mode would probably be enjoyed by more people than Coil 3, so it'd be hardly a waste of time for those 4 noobs who can't clear it yet like some are trying to make it sounds. It's just more mirror climbing because there isn't really any argument against it since it doesn't impact those who already cleared it in any way.

It'd be like (new) Primals HM: no rewards, just to progress the story, yet I don't see anyone complaining about those.

The current versions of Turns 1-9, are the nerfed versions from the original designs.

That is actually the easy version of the content...

I (and many others I bet) would appreciate if you stop calling development on something that already exists.

That IS development.

To go back and adjust, is to 'develop', it takes time, effort and re-implementation on top of testing.

It's a huge waste of time, when the content has already been nerfed from its original design, and then re-developed and designed again for Savage Coil (to reflect closer to the original design).


To re-do it for a third time would be an immense waste.


(P.S. Naming yourself after the worst FF character 0/10)

[Kaelah]

People need to stop and think for a moment what they're asking for.
I mean really think about it.

Take a look at the level of difficulty in Leviathan/Ramuh hard vs the "other" hard mode primals. Then take a look at all of their extreme counterparts.
The number of mechanics used in Leviathan and Ramuh hard are ridiculous by comparison, almost none are used. They do not teach you much about their mechanics at all on your average first run through them. They even use less mechanics than Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, or Moogle. They teach you almost nothing.

While I do agree with your point, it could also be argued that if the primals have these "easy mode" versions that are easy to beat and teach us nothing of the extreme version, why can't Coil have the same thing? Just for story purposes.

[Moomba33]

I personally don't believe any story content should be locked behind extremely difficult fights.
I'm fine with those fights existing for the challenge and loot, but to me the story should be for everyone.

Of course SE is free to design the game the way they wish. If they intend for the coil story to only be experienced by a few than that's the way it is, though to me the addition of echo suggests they do want more people to clear these fights eventually.
I agree with the post a few pages back that said it would be better to have separate story modes and no echo on the normal versions to help preserve their challenge.

[Eidolon]

While I do agree with your point, it could also be argued that if the primals have these "easy mode" versions that are easy to beat and teach us nothing of the extreme version, why can't Coil have the same thing? Just for story purposes.

You're unfortunately comparing two slightly different concepts. The story of the Normal/Hard Mode Primals is chronologically before the story of the Extreme mode primals. They're not meant to fill the same purpose, because in terms of story, they fufill different purposes.

What you're suggesting is that current raid content would be a Hard Mode, and that it would have its own story, while the version your suggesting would be a first clear 'normal' mode, and wouldn't share the same story we currently have.

[Kaelah]

You're unfortunately comparing two slightly different concepts. The story of the Normal/Hard Mode Primals is chronologically before the story of the Extreme mode primals. They're not meant to fill the same purpose, because in terms of story, they fufill different purposes.

What you're suggesting is that current raid content would be a Hard Mode, and that it would have its own story, while the version your suggesting would be a first clear 'normal' mode, and wouldn't share the same story we currently have.

Touche good Sir. You have me bested. lol.

[Teryaani]

So think, please think. Is this really the path you want to proceed down?

I think I see where the disconnect is. You're an endgame player. You do whatever needs to be done to have the best gear for the content along with the best enhancements (food in this case). No matter the grind to get those, the endgame is worth it.

For most players though, that's not the case.

Take a look at the game that this takes a lot of it's cues from, WoW. The bulk of the player base will never see endgame content outside of LFR (story mode with minor drops) and are fine with it. You're looking at this saying "If you do this they won't improve" but what actually would happen if you leave it alone is "they won't play".

When Mists came out in WoW. The top endgame raid teams unlocked the farms to get at the best foods, they threw themselves at content like crazy, they ground every faction's rep to get the rewards offered (because the best enchants and recipes had to be gained that way. The rest of the players? Not a chance. Maybe if there was a vanity pet or mount or transmog gear. Otherwise? Nah.

These are not players that are going to push for endgame. It's the same fallacy that blizzard falls into with wPVP. "If we just have them experience it, they'll love it". Not necessarily and the same is true here.

Edit: Sorry saeedaisspecial for replying back here. Post limit was reached. Aggravating thing that.

No.
Please read what I have posted. I want all aspects of the game to be improved upon. If the game is catered towards those that do not wish to improve, those who would settle with simple attacking a fancy looking training dummy for a cutscene, then the game cannot improve, at all. The developers will be (and currently are) in fear of adding anything that may be deemed "too complex" for said people. No one wins when this is the case.
Casual players, hardcore players, every type of player, has posted threads asking for things such as pure support jobs, classic (and complex) FF jobs such as Blue Mage, Puppetmaster, Red Mage, etc. Jobs that could only work if they were built with some level of complexity in mind. Yoshi himself has said he will not do this because he fears that the playerbase will not be able to grasp some of the concepts involved with the job. This is what allowing people to remain ignorant and unwilling to improve does, it hurts us (the hardcore playerbase) by previewing us from experiencing a complex game, it prevents you from experiencing new jobs that you have always wanted to be in game.
It helps no one but the unwilling.

You're assuming that there a three tiered raid structure wouldn't work (Story > Normal > Savage) and I think it would. Players still raid in WoW with it (LFR > Normal > Extreme), and do so at all levels of difficulty. You can have your complexity (normal) and fiendish complexity (savage) and players will play it. It sounds like you're suggesting that the endgame would just evaporate if they added this and it wouldn't. It would just mean that players that would never experience the content otherwise get to touch it in some small way.

For the jobs angle, the game was built with the MMO holy trinity and the challenge is how to make them feel right, be useful when played well, and also fit into the role structure that exists. I understand the upset, these are iconic FF jobs and you want to be able to play them. Truth be told, I don't see any reason for developers not to release a complicated class. Not every player has to enjoy every role. I may know how to play DRG and do it pretty well, but it's not my go-to dps.

For your concern that the players unable to handle complexity will destroy things for you, here's the thing, my in-laws play WoW and they will never improve. Really. My wife and I have coached, and guided, and set up tool bars for them and run them through content, explaining the whole way. Those players are going to be in the game and it can exist with them, and with complex content. They aren't mutually exclusive things. They will never experience the complex content, but they see the story progress regardless. They will never have BiS gear. You still can. The existence of casual players doesn't hurt the hardcore.