Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Zyphione]

Not going to hide it. Japanse community is having same discussion:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...2691-パッチ2.38総合

They beleived that WHM and SCH need to be tune down, but do not prefer disable an action entirely instead of adjusting it.

The opinions are not much different there to here if only looking at logical thought if this thread have any. They discuss on borderline that healers have also become boring but because they feel like punching bag? Last page has listing and mention that class has ability to do too many things at bottom of page? I do not know if you agree that tuning down would be better idea? Still makes healer strong in highlighted situation after reading through thread.
I do not feel that anything has change playing FL games even after stance was remove but at least SCH do not visit base alone and spend more time healing party.

[Klive]

This thread now...

[Zyphione]

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I type a similar reply to others I know and they said same thing as you where they should try to find balance but I still feel healing penalty will not do much since no one heal in stance. Problem mostly is that stance changing all MND to INT already is too much, only thing to do is delete stance and make a new type of stance? If that is idea then SqE will take long to implement..? It is new PvP skill and do not think they will add skill any time soon.

I agree.
Many healer play full VIT and stance for full INT to be strong dpser with high hp then no stance to become full VIT and full MND to be strong healer with high hp. Advantage is too superior and very versatile and this not counted fairy and many other thing including alchemy potion. Have been playing Frontline since last post here and the games are same as well but the many WHM party disappear and people start playing all classes and back to be balanced party.

The poster on page 7 or 8 mention maybe developer have something plan for 2.4 so we wait until then and see the surprise? Big patch would include PvP change also.
I gave same situation you highlight in my past post that many people chase that you have no time to stance and wait timer if they stun at good time (take 4 second to exit stance after use it + stun 6 second and stun again 3 second).

Do not think anyone read or had any to give where stance can help in that situation. If you post limit then can reply tomorrow or when limit reset

Thank you for reply though!

[Tridus1x]

I am the lowest common denominator.

I'm not the one that needed a nerf to a class in order to win.

Nice try though.

Seems people like Domira aren't able to provide reasons why other jobs aren't getting looked at. I guess they need time to lose to job X so they can demand Y changes.

They kicked, they screamed, the devs heard. I guess that's how you get things done in FFXIV PVP. Shame they aren't interested in teamwork.

[Tridus1x]

I agree.
Especially healers who [can't/don't want to] play without their "I can do everything" button.

I know, right? I mean it's like healers are the only job that can do multiple things to support themselves or their group. Gosh!

[KingAhmoseTheFirst]

I do not feel that anything has change playing FL games even after stance was remove

Actually, it has... The fact that they took away the means of a healer becoming the aggressor, when 1v1, 1v2 or 3 is pretty lame.. I mean hell they just gave monk a buff to take off Aether stacks if I'm correct.. Why should my class be punished because people don't know how to play there job to its full potiental.... On that note people that just started playing PvP with the launch of Frontlines should never go into the Wolves Den because they will be asking for more nerfs and complaining when they consistently lose...

[FaizeD]

I see this thread is still filled with mediocre players who don't PvP as healers, complaining about healers. Listen, if a Healer could steamroll you 1v1 pre-nerf, then you were simply garbage. 1v3? You and your friends were trash. Sorry, it's that simple. Those big DPS numbers Healers rolled out weren't from spamming Stone II or whittling down a target with DoTs. They were from AoE in cluster situations. Let's ignore the players that thought crowding around a group of healers was a good idea for a moment - if this was the REAL issue, then the devs should have fixed Holy/Bane. I thought this was commonly understood, apparently there aren't enough crayons in the world to explain it to some.

But no, they decided to cater to the lowest common denominator here and do a blanket nerf. Lazy. The most hilarious thing about the whole ordeal is that all the players complaining about how healers should only heal as this is a GROUP-ORIENTED game, ignore the fact that now DPS/Tanks can roam solo without much peril. Yes, it was a simple matter of "I can't run around by myself because a healer might hurt me, because I suck" and now you're free to suck it up in the suckiest way possible, congrats.

I look forward to the MRD nerf next. I mean self-heals and DPS? They're a tank.

[Divinemight]

They kicked, they screamed, the devs heard. I guess that's how you get things done in FFXIV PVP. Shame they aren't interested in teamwork.

You will only to be disappointed because the points you will heard repeatly:

1. Devs listen to carebears
2. Healer haters
3. You dont have an arguement because you havent try healer
4. You are all whinners
5. Learn to play.

Did I miss anything?

You need more works of you want to become one of the Guardian. I also can say your reaction sounds like mediocre players that need to put yourself in a superior position before you can even PvP.

I also can not stop laughing whenever people use point 3 as their argument as well, by taking the assumption this is the only MMO that people ever played. Most of people are from WoW and that game also have some thong called the healer (air quote). We definitely haven't see any job or class that is being jack-of-all trade and master of everything. keep dreaming..

In a PvP environment that is much bigger has become the world of healer craft. A lot of jobs are disappeared on the Frontline, their players is now holding an open burial ceremony for the Paladins:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ナイトが絶滅【存在忘れてた】

Do you think development really will let this tread continue? Especially you have a lead designer who actively playing in this environment?

[Zyphione]

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I reply to you sentence by sentence? Your post all over the place and general idea not clear to me, please excuse me.

They take away healer ability to be aggressive? Healer still have damage skill. You really mean they remove healer ability to become part-DPS class and have DPS-level damage. This make healer too versatile so it removed as Healer very strong heals and very strong DPS with press of 1 button, only capable of being done as Healer and no other class.
Then remove stance did not take away ability to be aggressor but only take away ability to become DPS class with no compromise other than personal-player highlight 'know when to press button'. Aspect of gameplay that everyone can do when HP below 50%.
Am I right to say this?

MNK buff to remove Aetherflow teach SCH not to have 6 stack forever as was too strong. Now SCH/SMN have to think on when to use Aetherflow which encourage player to be more aware because if you leave aetherflow and never spend, it get dispelled. This is good change and help player get better at PvP or be more aware of skill usage, can help to make player overall better themself.

Playing Job to full potential? You mean press 1 button to become Healer and again to become DPS?
That case then everyone play SCH to full potential already.
Reply here same as first paragraph.

Stance argument people make 1 aspect out of proportion and modifying it would modify entire skill since the foundation of skill is to convert values?
Then it should be remove until SqE implement new thing in 2.4. Refusal to do Frontline because of this change not reflecting outside of people say 2 hour queue time in past posts? NA queue time I always see they say 2-5 hour? Then nothing change.

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I am sorry if you misunderstand? I was not clear. My personal opinion is nothing change because I do not believe press 1 button at correct time altar my gameplay at all. I still do same thing and damage increase nothing special and not something I notice when playing class explained to me as Healer. All this is luxury to have and luxury that was abuse in many case.

Just one of many idea.

Some people highlight healer do not have compromise and get best of both world. Such thing is consider 'not fair' and 'overpower' by community. Discussion can not reach fruit because many argue on personal premises and enjoyment.
There is no general line for personal enjoyment.

I can not comment on your example because I do not play on NA server. If SqE motive was to make Healer heal instead of DPS then they did job correctly based on what you say? Then is ok and hopefully 2.4 surprise us more.

[Domira]

I'm the one that needed a fotm class in order to win.

Nice try though.

Seems people like me aren't able to provide reasons why other jobs aren't getting looked at. I guess I need time to lose to job X so they can demand Y changes.

I kicked, I screamed, the devs heard. I guess that's how I get things done in FFXIV PVP. Shame I'm not interested in teamwork.

I corrected your post again. You probably should stop having conversations with yourself, I know its difficult for you to understand why others do not agree with you have a totally different perspective than your own. Perhaps this could be of use to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection