Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

[Zyphione]

Compile

Very strange you spend many thread saying there is no point talking to Divine but are the only person to tie 2-3 reply toward him/her in row.

If you want Divine to yourself then better to just say, when friendship system come out then maybe both can be happy together on 2 person chocobo. I think real problem in such strong relationship is who is paying for house.

Divine did not make assumption yet of me since I am sure all my posts have been read. Why must all post be on such personal level? Many reveal weakness like they being attacked or disadvantaged by developer as if developer went out of his way to attack you by remove stance.

So far nothing but hypocrites and hypothetical?
Label Divine as cannot accept opinion when in reality all Divine trying to do is explain and give reason why could have been remove and why stance could be seen as overpower. The only reply receive is that Divine force people to conform to personal view?
If this is case then is good thing forum is not meant for anyone but those who enjoy complaining about game and game changes without use of statistic evidence. Can not even accept that Fyce say stance is meant for PvE? Must make unintelligent comment to remove all skill? Very nice to know such information of your personality.

In recent post for stance remove, all the people who want to keep stance say should change the skill or that they read all reply? If read all reply then should know why stance was remove and not change.

I think many take producer for an idiot? I am sure he already consider modifying stance instead of remove, but why did he remove instead of modify? If such question escape you then maybe you have other problem to consider.

I don't know, seems like just removing the move altogether was just a simpler solution to the problem

It was simpler solution because stance can not be change.
Since your 2nd post in this forum? I explain for you if that is fine? Please excuse me if I seem rude by doing this.

Stance seem to be made in such way that it:
- Convert all MND value into INT (absolute)
- Increase total damage by 10% after convert (general)
- Reduce heal by 20% after convert (general)

Most damage and heal skill data will be base on stat formula?
1/4591*(v/x+c)/(5/g+h) +WD value
This is example, where v/x/c/g/h are stat variable and base on weapon damage.

If understanding correct, stance is AB value and do not have selective change before skill is use.. Heal and Damage value become compile collective data set? No individually modified before compile into set data value before conversion occur.
Conversion only change 2 set of value with each other and do not modify.
If skill is truly build this way then modifying is not possible and skill need to be redone entirely, which is why I think was remove. Bar which would affect PVE as there is no real value to modify as conversion and facet of skill is base overall absolute compiled values, they are only switch.

There is no formula for stance? Therefore skill can not be change the way many say it should. So far only PVP change made is removal of ability like AOE slow, so factor removal is possible but not factor modifications? I do not know, only developer know because they have access to mainframe and database file.. and they choose to remove stance.

Because PVP not initially inside of game and was add later, stance have long been proven after to be overpower just by gearwork of skill and how it twist character stat value to turn healer into DPS class without burst factor outside of Ruin II spam. It was not skill meant for PVP and more for leveling or PVE, therefore was remove. Gearwork of skill not meant to be modify, therefore was not modify.

Am I right to say this?
Even if this is dispute, no one will know why was remove then.

[Hailie]

Grudge?

I also simply list all PvE only actions and present a fact that Paladins didnt complain about being guttered. Oh that is right, it is not the job i am playing any way, who cares. (Sacarstic)

You know, if you are really care and find it is unresaonble for Cleric Stance is disabled. You can always voice yourself in open letter. Go ahead and ask him the question. He seems willing to answer all the questions playerbase throwing at him. Raise your concern and it is more productive, you know?

I would rather to see this question being ask instead of that Open PvP one when you should knew majority of FF14 playerbase is heavily PvE.

I said I didn't agree that they did away with CS in pvp completely... meaning It would have been nice if they had come up with another alternative besides removing it.

[Mutemutt]

That sounds like a complaint to me... I mean, I get that people want to avoid the icky sounding word, complaint, but still...

I'm not mad that they just chose to remove CS altogether either. But, if I were to suggest an alternative, I would say up the cooldown to 3-5 minutes, dismiss and lock access to both fairies, and lock away lustrate while in cleric stance (not really sure about benediction since it's on a 5 min timer anyway). Essentially, if a healer wants to dps, they should give up most of what makes them an effective healer and have a time frame that's realistically punishable by the opponent. Don't really think people would like that though (plus it doesn't really address those full whm parties, though I guess nerf on holy dmg in pvp would be simple enough). I don't know, seems like just removing the move altogether was just a simpler solution to the problem

[Hollowed]

The reason people flipped out about healers is not that they are OP (though sch did need a little gimp) its the mindset these bad players are in, they think a healer is weak and defenseless on their own so when they go after one and get their butt kicked they flip out cause a "weak" class like a healer shouldn't be able to kill them alone. Its not that healers were zamgOP its the mindset that portion of the community had. Give the fairy cleric stance healing debuff when the master has it on, maybe even remove ruin II from sch during PVP, gimp healer stacking pow problem solved; but SE took the lazy route, when in doubt take it out. P.S. Healer sucks outside a premade pt now, big time, at least WHM does. My main was WHM and I will never come that class to frontlines with the way it is now.

[Gor]

The reason people flipped out about healers is not that they are OP (though sch did need a little gimp) its the mindset these bad players are in, they think a healer is weak and defenseless on their own so when they go after one and get their butt kicked they flip out cause a "weak" class like a healer shouldn't be able to kill them alone.

^ this. the hate is real.

[Hailie]

Very strange you spend many thread saying there is no point talking to Divine but are the only person to tie 2-3 reply toward him/her in row.

Yep Divine and I go back and forth in our post responding to each other he has done the same to me ...there are others who feel the same way.. I know some that refuse to even bother reading his post

If you want Divine to yourself then better to just say

I did say it I posted directly to him also

Divine did not make assumption yet of me since I am sure all my posts have been read.Why must all post be on such personal level? Many reveal weakness like they being attacked or disadvantaged by developer as if developer went out of his way to attack you by remove stance.

Huh? Never felt like it was an attacked I just didn't agree it was removed all together

Label Divine as cannot accept opinion when in reality all Divine trying to do is explain and give reason why could have been remove and why stance could be seen as overpower. The only reply receive is that Divine force people to conform to personal view?

Yep Divine CAN NOT accept others opinion when they don't agree with his.. he comes off very Elitist, condescending, he makes assumptions about things or people he shouldn't he also shouldn't try to force his views on
others.. people have the right to NOT agree

Can not even accept that Fyce say stance is meant for PvE?Must make unintelligent comment to remove all skill? Very nice to know such information of your personality.

I NEVER made a comment to remove all skills! read further down to what I actually said... whose the 1 making unintelligent comments now?

The comment Fyce respond to

That skill is obtained very early in CNJ, meaning you're supposed to use it.

Yes, in PvE.

If that's the case then every skill in any class/job is suppose to only be used in PVE and not PVP.

Yes, but only if you assume that every PvE skill of every class is unbalanced and does not fit in a PvP environment... which is obviously not the case.

Cleric stance, however, was unbalanced in PvP.

When Fyce made his point I understood so I didn't bother responding

I think many take producer for an idiot? I am sure he already consider modifying stance instead of remove, but why did he remove instead of modify? If such question escape you then maybe you have other problem to consider.

Just because hes the producer who makes these types of decisions to modify or make changes doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

Have a nice day.

[Divinemight]

Yep Divine and I go back and forth in our post responding to each other he has done the same to me ...there are others who feel the same way.. I know some that refuse to even bother reading his post

I did say it I posted directly to him also

Huh? Never felt like it was an attacked I just didn't agree it was removed all together

Yep Divine CAN NOT accept others opinion when they don't agree with his.. he comes off very Elitist, condescending, he makes assumptions about things or people he shouldn't he also shouldn't try to force his views on
others.. people have the right to NOT agree

When Fyce made his point I understood so I didn't bother responding

Just because hes the producer who makes these types of decisions to modify or make changes doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

Please allow me to use this pic to express my current feeling.



Which point you dont get it? I accept an arguemnt with solid reference, not something that can be category into the following fives:

1. Devs listen to carebears
2. Healer haters
3. You dont have an arguement because you havent try healer
4. You are all whinners
5. Learn to play.

I have provided videos and dps chart to breakdown Scholar's performance to support my arugments. Do I see any solid reference ever given except repeating 5 points list above?

Elitism? Pretty sure I am not the one who are calling people carebear or tell people to learn to play. I am sharing information to help players getting better. If you failed to see that or choose to ignore due to your own little grudge. Your problem, your lost.

Gor answered the question. I think he agreed that Cleric Stance need a nerf instead of being removed. What about you? Why do you need 100% functional Cleric Stance as a healer if you have no intention to playing it as a DPS role? You choose to remain silent when being asked at that thread before 2.35. How about provide a reason why?

You really dont like the the way of Cleric Stance being removed. Why dont you take an action by participating in the next open letter and raise your concern? Please dont dodge this one, give a straight answer, are you going to or you are not. (On second thought, you probably will try to dodge this one again, so nvm)

Let's face it. Yoship doesnt read English, he relies on English community mamanger to pass the information. If you have been providing positive feedbacks instead of repeating those 5 points, the community manager would do something by now. Your next in line option is produce open letter only, try to take an action and do something instead for a change (Audience is not you only, this paragraph is for all who disagree with Cleric Stance change).

[Gor]

why is this thread still going? we're just talkin about the same ish over and over again

[Divinemight]

why is this thread still going? we're just talkin about the same ish over and over again

I dont know, good question? For 5 stages of grief, I thought people would be at stage of Acceptance by now.

[Hailie]

snip

sigh... I have already answered those questions in other post I am not going to repeat them again so you can feel better about yourself...

as far as this is goes 1. Devs listen to carebears
2. Healer haters
3. You dont have an arguement because you havent try healer
4. You are all whinners
5. Learn to play.

the 1-5 has been said to you from other people..not from me