Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Edli]

Mechanics in boss battles suck.

Every game has mechanics. Is what makes them games. Maybe mechanic wasn't the right term to use there? Maybe say that you hate mechanics that instantly kill you or something like that. Just saying mechanics in general on a boss battle suck is a strange thing to say.

[Teirshin]

So, just having the boss sitting there and doing nothing is...better?

Every game has mechanics. Is what makes them games. Maybe mechanic wasn't the right term to use there? Maybe say that you hate mechanics that instantly kill you or something like that. Just saying mechanics in general on a boss battle suck is a strange thing to say.

I think the point Quesse was making that the way the mechanics are implemented in FFXIV suck.

Its basically playing Simon. Memorize the pattern (which never changes so we're already worse off than Simon), move to the spot at the right time while spamming a macro to do DPS.

Randomized mechanics would be far more engaging and entertaining, but that would require thinking and not be something people could faceroll, so the majority of players nowadays would never support it. Those of us who grew up on older MMO's and know what a real challenge was back then compared to the cakewalk MMO's are today though, would likely welcome a chance to get back to some of the old ways here and there.

You know, to earn the drops rather than pretty much have them handed to use for doing a pre-ordained step by step dance.

MMO players today have it sooooo easy, and yet whine they've got it "oh so bad". Pfft. No you dont.

[Yukiko]

In FFXIV:ARR they made scripted fights to support weaker players!
If you remember the pattern you should be able to beat the boss (in theory)
Strange thing is that they added enrage timers which makes the whole "remember the pattern and you beat it" useless... (dont forget about 2hr attacks)
About the avoiding: well, thats another thing and they just need to increase delay of attacks, or adding evil buffs - so that players can react...
I do not understand why they refuse with argumentation "it will become too easy then", since 1.xx we are continously reporting big issues and also name specific attacks (not all make problems). They are using it to artificial increase difficult and thats what playerbase dislikes because other games already proven better methods!

[Velhart]

MMO players today have it sooooo easy, and yet whine they've got it "oh so bad". Pfft. No you dont.

Been playing MMO's since early 2000's and the only thing that made older MMO's more difficult was that consequences were more severe, much more grinding, and the amount of work needed to complete the simplest of tasks.

I don't believe the challenge to players would be different at the end of the day if bosses were random. A lot don't even know the patterns and just know what to do when they see a certain mechanic. Also, if people have it so easy, why are there not more T9 winners? I mean, you only have to memorize a pattern, right? The pattern is only the back bone. You need a tank who can time and utilize his cooldowns correctly, DPS who not only have to adjust to the mechanics but be efficient in DPS at the same time, and so on.

[Edli]

Those of us who grew up on older MMO's and know what a real challenge was back then compared to the cakewalk MMO's are today.

I've been there in the old days. The challenge on those games used to be on other things not boss fights. On the fact that it took ages to level, that you could lose XP and gear if you die. That getting to the boss was a long and dangerous trip. Sure they had their charm but when it came to boss fights they were pretty boring and I don't miss it. They just weren't very interesting fights. Just sitting there for hours and dpsing is all I remember. On those games gear was king.

[Teirshin]

I've been there in the old days. The challenge on those games used to be on other things not boss fights. On the fact that it took ages to level, that you could lose XP and gear if you die. That getting to the boss was a long and dangerous trip. Sure they had their charm but when it came to boss fights they were pretty boring and I don't miss it. They just weren't very interesting fights. Just sitting there for hours and dpsing is all I remember. On those games gear was king.

Skill mattered a lot too back then. Ask anyone who remembers pulling in the Plane of Hate or Fear back when EQ was still new....

Raid pullers who could do it and do it well were looked up to and always in demand.

Back then when you got a drop, you seriously feel like you earned it. Now its more like "Oh, you showed up! Here's a relic!".

The raid/boss fights in FFXIV are like Square Dancing events, the only thing missing is the Moogle on the side with the record player and megaphone calling out the steps.

[Luvbunny]

God - these threads lol. They already implement somewhat "random" stuffs in their heavily scripted boss battle mechanic. And the majority of players are having real problem with these "slightly oh so random" stuffs thrown in on top of all the jump rope mechanic that everyone also has to memorize. I already mentioned that the Ultima Hard has some random elements - yes the majority of the battle 95% of them has pattern, its heavily scripted, but it has A LOT of pattern within its phases, not just 2-3 attack pattern. But it also has some "random" stuffs, you don't know where the bombs will hit, the laser light show, and the green beam, just to name a few. Twintania has "random dive bombs" and "random selection" on who gets the mark, etc.

If suddenly ALL of these "scripted" mechanics become "randomized" and you don't know which order they will start - a lot of players will have even harder time to clear contents. I mean - sure, maybe they can have daily dungeons after level 50 to have slightly random - no marker - moves, example: Stone Vigil Hard Mode. Every games - as others have mentioned - have mechanic. Legend of Zelda series has bosses with much FAR simpler mechanic than FF14, and the bosses don't exactly do super complex heavily scripted moves like in here - and people went "ape shit" over Legend of Zelda series...

[Magis]

Skill mattered a lot too back then. Ask anyone who remembers pulling in the Plane of Hate or Fear back when EQ was still new....

Raid pullers who could do it and do it well were looked up to and always in demand.

Back then when you got a drop, you seriously feel like you earned it. Now its more like "Oh, you showed up! Here's a relic!".

The raid/boss fights in FFXIV are like Square Dancing events, the only thing missing is the Moogle on the side with the record player and megaphone calling out the steps.

Razorgore will always be my favorite, and i have always referenced that as my example of "classic" MMO raids. 40 monsters (orcs and dragonkin actually) on the field, some being kited by hunters, some being CCed by mages/rogues, and the rest being killed by damage dealers. ONTOP of that, one player is mind controlling the actual boss, trying to destroy eggs as fast as possible. After all that, the boss finally aggros and must be killed. It was truly an endurance test based on players mental stamina and their character's as well, like one poster mentioned... instead of some arbitrary rage timer. Everyone had to stay focused, use their utility skills and knowledge how to play, and do their job during the fight to pass phase one. However, unlike FFXIV, you could still pull off a win if half the raid (20 people) die and you are still good enough to push out damage, heal the tank, and keep aggro. Unlike XIV where 1 person dieing == wipe.

Oh yeah, and this was the first thing you see entering BWL. You don't get to even explore until you beat me, the giant rooster block lol.

[Magis]

I already mentioned that the Ultima Hard has some random elements - yes the majority of the battle 95% of them has pattern, its heavily scripted, but it has A LOT of pattern within its phases, not just 2-3 attack pattern. But it also has some "random" stuffs, you don't know where the bombs will hit, the laser light show, and the green beam, just to name a few. Twintania has "random dive bombs" and "random selection" on who gets the mark, etc.

Random selection of markers doesn't change the actual strategy of the fight though. You are still doing the same thing, just who does it changes. Also a lot of your so called "random" stuff is defeated anyway by stacking. In Titan EX the plumes are redundant because of the stack, and dive bombs as well when players stack in the pit.

[Fyce]

There's something I don't really understand: why are some people saying that executing precise things at a precise time to beat a scripted boss doesn't require skill?

I mean, isn't that exactly the same as watching a ballet? Would you tell to those dancers that what they're doing isn't difficult or that they don't deserve to be applauded at the end?
They trained hours upon hours, doing the exact same thing over and over again to get it right. They don't just pop on stage and do whatever they want to show the public how good they are at improvising because the show is just a random mess... not to mention that it's not what the spectators came to see.

Also, I will point at the fact that RNG and overall randomness is the complete opposite of being skilled. If you win just because you were lucky during an encounter, it doesn't make you skilled, it just makes you a lucky player.
Same thing goes for loosing, but instead, it generates a high level of frustration when it happens, just because there's nothing you could have done to prevent it.


Finally, I've red a few pages of this thread, and somewhere, I saw someone saying something like "a battle is random! Fighting is not a scripted thing!".
Bloody hell yes it's scripted. Maybe the last bar fight you had was full of drunk people punching randomly in the air, hoping to reach the face of someone... but armies and, in a lesser extent, special forces interventions are everything but random.
These guys are training everyday to be able to execute a pattern perfectly for a specific situation. Just like the dancers of a ballet I was talking about.

So, while some points of the OP and some people here are correct, I have no idea what some of you are talking about when you associate randomness to skill.