Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Deusteele]

The problem with random mechanics is they have to be deadly enough to threaten the group, without being complete random one hit kills. If they err on the safe side or as group gears up, the solution becomes stack and heal through. Err the other way and you'll see the forums explode with hate threads. It's fine line to walk for any developer.

As for the then and now comparisons for player skill. You're wrong, simple as that. Players now are so much more skilled then they used to be. 10 years ago forums and databases didn't exist the way they do now. Sites like Wowhead, Gamerescape, and these very forums were non-existent. The sphere of plat that exists for MMO has changed radically and a lot of players in this very thread refuse to see or accept that.

[Amberion]

There's something I don't really understand: why are some people saying that executing precise things at a precise time to beat a scripted boss doesn't require skill?

But what does your mad dances move have to do with your characters skills/stats? Your characters skills/stats, and how you use them should be the main focus. In this game you can have mediocre skill with your character, but godlike dodging skills and pretty much beat all fights. Now reverse those skills, and you won't have a chance.

I mean, isn't that exactly the same as watching a ballet? Would you tell to those dancers that what they're doing isn't difficult or that they don't deserve to be applauded at the end?
They trained hours upon hours, doing the exact same thing over and over again to get it right. They don't just pop on stage and do whatever they want to show the public how good they are at improvising because the show is just a random mess... not to mention that it's not what the spectators came to see.

Take a comedy act. Who has more skill in it, the one who made a good show with coming up with and rehearsing for 1 month, or the one who made a good show with improvisation?

[Magis]

But what does your mad dances move have to do with your characters skills/stats? Your characters skills/stats, and how you use them should be the main focus. In this game you can have mediocre skill with your character, but godlike dodging skills and pretty much beat all fights. Now reverse those skills, and you won't have a chance.

This right here!!! It's like people forgot this is an RPG, not an action game.

[Fyce]

But what does your mad dances move have to do with your characters skills/stats? Your characters skills/stats, and how you use them should be the main focus.

But why? Why is it more important to you to be able to do a perfect DPS rotation rather than executing precise moves at a specific time? It just comes to personnal preferences here.

In this game you can have mediocre skill with your character, but godlike dodging skills and pretty much beat all fights. Now reverse those skills, and you won't have a chance.

I'm sorry but this is not true.

If your healer is doing nothing but spamming Cure II, overhealing like crazy and not using his selfbuffs at the right time, no matter how good at dodging he is, you'll die. If your DPS is mediocre because of bad rotations, you'll not pass some DPS checks. If your tank doesn't know when to pop his cooldowns when necessary, wipe is incoming... unless you have very good healer, but then, if proves that skill is important.

I cannot let you say that you can clear out all the content if you are just good at dodging and executing a pattern.
Plus, it makes no sense to say that: someone good enough to perform all the actions needed during a fight is more likely to be able to react accordingly to a certain situation, because he/she have experience in the fight.
Currently, you need to be at least decent with your skills/rotations AND be able to perform godlike dodges to clear all the content.

It just seems that some people here want the opposite and try to enfore the idea that "randomness" and "non-wipe inducing moves" should do the trick. But they're wrong. Maybe it will surprises you the first times, but in the end, fights will become dull and tasteless while the only objective will be to be overgeared to reduce the effect of the randomness in order to minimise the skill level required.

Take a comedy act. Who has more skill in it, the one who made a good show with coming up with and rehearsing for 1 month, or the one who made a good show with improvisation?

There're actually less improvisation shows than scripted ones. In fact, I don't really see the former type being represented at all besides acting/theater teaching lessons.
You'll sometimes see a humorist being asked to react to something, throwing a few good jokes and call it a day, but you'll never see an unscripted opera or, like I said, a ballet... because it makes no sense.

The point of training and being good at what you do is to put that into a well defined context. In FFXIV, if you want to be flawless in a boss battle, you indeed have to be a dodging god, but if you are mediocre with your character skills, you'll hold everyone down, sometimes causing wipes.

[Teirshin]

As for the then and now comparisons for player skill. You're wrong, simple as that. Players now are so much more skilled then they used to be. 10 years ago forums and databases didn't exist the way they do now. Sites like Wowhead, Gamerescape, and these very forums were non-existent. The sphere of plat that exists for MMO has changed radically and a lot of players in this very thread refuse to see or accept that.

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

In the old days, players learned and adapted on the fly, thats more skill than someone nowadays who just looks up a video of a pre-scripted fight and just follows the same movements everyone else does.

There's no skill in following a pre-scripted movement pattern. Adapting on the fly takes skill.

The only thing the modern player is skilled at is looking up strategies so they dont have to exert 1 ounce of mental effort to learn it on their own, and looking up what drops there are in the dungeon that they want to roll on. Google-Fu is strong with this generation, but "on the spur of the moment thinking"... not so much.

[Clavaat]

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

Except that doesn't work. When was the last time you went into a group where everyone watched the same video and beat it in 1 go, and NEVER had to adapt? In order for that to happen, everyone would have to be the exact same job as the video, do the exact same positioning as the video, and hope that the boss' RNG (yes, they have some) selects the right people.

You are greatly over-generalizing everything. You also act like people didn't look up guides/videos forever. I remember watching Kirin fights in FFXI and reading guides to figure out what we were supposed to do WAY ahead of time, back in '06. As a matter of fact, I always had FFXIclopedia open for all quests all the time...because it was nearly impossible to figure out what you were supposed to do otherwise.

It's the same as it's always been.

[Zarzak]

Also, if people have it so easy, why are there not more T9 winners? I mean, you only have to memorize a pattern, right? The pattern is only the back bone. You need a tank who can time and utilize his cooldowns correctly, DPS who not only have to adjust to the mechanics but be efficient in DPS at the same time, and so on.

To the 2nd point 1st since it leads into the 1st.

These events are tuned to sub ilvl 100 at optimal play. So sorry but tanks being amazing at cooldowns and DPS being awesome is not a requirement with ilvl 110 which is achievable without ever stepping foot in raids which brings me to the 1st point....

Why aren't there more people clearing T9? The better question is Why would you clear T9 at all? There is next to no motivation for anyone beyond hardcore raiders to do it. It is childs play and tuned for the SUPER casuals. But why would the super casuals bother to learn the DDR moves when they can just afk in town until a hunt spawns > port out > and be handed raid loot.

[Velhart]

Sorry but moving from point A to point B because the video tells you that now is the time to do it is not skill.

In the old days, players learned and adapted on the fly, thats more skill than someone nowadays who just looks up a video of a pre-scripted fight and just follows the same movements everyone else does.

There's no skill in following a pre-scripted movement pattern. Adapting on the fly takes skill.

The only thing the modern player is skilled at is looking up strategies so they dont have to exert 1 ounce of mental effort to learn it on their own, and looking up what drops there are in the dungeon that they want to roll on. Google-Fu is strong with this generation, but "on the spur of the moment thinking"... not so much.

Yea this isn't true. People used guides just as much back then as they do now. The only difference is YouTube was not a thing. With how much was usually in stake (like a BCNM/KSNM orb from FFXI), people would look up every detail of the fight to make sure all their efforts don't go to waste. Actually if anything, people used guides even more back then. MMO's today at least give you a peace of mind to experiment before deciding to use a guide.

To the 2nd point 1st since it leads into the 1st.

These events are tuned to sub ilvl 100 at optimal play. So sorry but tanks being amazing at cooldowns and DPS being awesome is not a requirement with ilvl 110 which is achievable without ever stepping foot in raids which brings me to the 1st point....

Why aren't there more people clearing T9? The better question is Why would you clear T9 at all? There is next to no motivation for anyone beyond hardcore raiders to do it. It is childs play and tuned for the SUPER casuals. But why would the super casuals bother to learn the DDR moves when they can just afk in town until a hunt spawns > port out > and be handed raid loot.

I thought the current discussion was pattern in fights, not the motivation to do them. Sounds a tad off topic.

[Meier]

Q: Currently, once you complete the Coil of Bahamut, you are unable to challenge it until the reset. If we are in a FC or LS with more than 8 players, it's hard to sync the progression of everyone in the FC/LS. Is there any way you could change the once-a-week system so that we could help out our fellow FC/LS members?

A: We've been receiving this question since launch and it's not that we haven't looked into it, but at the moment we don't feel it's something we need to act on right now. For example, if 4 people have cleared it and decide to help 4 others that have yet to clear itwho weren't going to lot on any equipment, there wouldn't be any issue if it is just for the clear. However, the development team has adjusted the stats on the reward items for players who were able to clear duties of this difficulty, and there is a concern that there would be item level inflation as there is a possibility that these rewards would fall into the hands of players that should not be obtaining them yet. Again, it's not that we haven't looked into this─we've certainly been thinking about this type of system, but this is not an issue where we can give an immediate answer.

Please tell me this is a mistranslation.

We've been receiving this question since launch and it's not that we haven't looked into it, but at the moment we don't feel it's something we need to act on right now.

>> Receiving it since launch. Don't feel the need to act on it.

...one year of asking isn't enough to act on it?

[Amberion]

Yea this isn't true. People used guides just as much back then as they do now. The only difference is YouTube was not a thing. With how much was usually in stake (like a BCNM/KSNM orb from FFXI), people would look up every detail of the fight to make sure all their efforts don't go to waste. Actually if anything, people used guides even more back then. MMO's today at least give you a peace of mind to experiment before deciding to use a guide.

Yes, there where guides back then. But it was more, stand here for a bit of safety, or you can kite it around here. And also what moves it had. Now it's pretty much stand here for x seconds, then move here because boss use this move and then do this and that.

You can almost write a macro for your player and just play up that and go have a smoke while it do the fight for you.

There're actually less improvisation shows than scripted ones. In fact, I don't really see the former type being represented at all besides acting/theater teaching lessons.
You'll sometimes see a humorist being asked to react to something, throwing a few good jokes and call it a day, but you'll never see an unscripted opera or, like I said, a ballet... because it makes no sense.

Make it like this then. An actor might forget his lines. A good one can improvise it on spot and not stumble.