What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

[Ashkendor]

I'm gonna be frank here. If you pull this kind of thing with a huge-damage mob like Marraco or a petrifier like Zanig'oh, you're not gonna get thanked, you're gonna get reported, because resetting on a mob like that screws over whoever got killed/petrified for longer than the mob's average lifetime.

Yup. Seen this happen with Maahes and Alectryon. All the cries of "omg resetting doesn't hurt anyone" make me shake my head because many of these mobs can kill/disable players and leave them getting no credit after it's reset.

You are NOT in the minority. The minority are the loud obnoxious selfish folks who come here in an attempt to justify and rationalize their bad behavior. They do so by making up stories and wishfully thinking that it is supposed to be competitive or how SE meant this for small groups etc. etc. They are mad that they didn't get their way in game so they come here to stink up the forums. This is their echo chamber and heave forbid we inject some reality and models for sensible behavior.

Funny that you say the people disagreeing with you are 'loud and obnoxious' when you are the one that's name-calling and accusing people of lying. What I get out of this is 'everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid'.

God forbid a debate have two sides.

[Thayos]

Did you read the OP? There was no drama or negativity. The OP's experience was very positive and left everyone feeling good.

I know that doesn't exactly fit into the anti-horde narrative, but that's because that narrative is false to begin with.

The drama from hunts comes from people who do resets and pull early... neither of which the majority of hunters do.

Yes, in this case the OP did a reset, but clearly he was aware of the circumstances and realized that, in this particular case, it was the right thing to do. Heck, he even put his own account at risk in order to help others. Not sure if I would have taken that risk, but props to him for making the hard call.

EDIT: OOPS! I meant to post this in the other thread with the guy whose FC accidentally pulled and then did a reset.

[Ghishlain]

Weighing in my random two cents.

Situation:
Someone "early" pulls a hunt mob (doesn't matter if accidental or not, just "early" pull for the main point of discussion).
After hunt dies, said person who early pulled gets several harassing tells that include explicit, derogatory, and/or racial remarks.

Let's get something clear here:
The act of early pulling not a violation of the ToS. There is not set time frames, and people waiting if just a common courtesy that they give to other players. Are there server wide nuances? Yes, there are, but the act of "early pulling", for all intents and purposes does not exist in context of how the game should be played via ToS.

Sending someone harassing tells containing explicit, derogatory remarks, racism, and/or threatening messages IS a breach of ToS and can be reported.

You are NOT in the minority. The minority are the loud obnoxious selfish folks who come here in an attempt to justify and rationalize their bad behavior. They do so by making up stories and wishfully thinking that it is supposed to be competitive or how SE meant this for small groups etc. etc. They are mad that they didn't get their way in game so they come here to stink up the forums. This is their echo chamber and heave forbid we inject some reality and models for sensible behavior.

It's funny you make a quote like this because the way you write this post, because it sounds like you're totally blind to all the negativity that an individual might face if they "early pull". In fact, one could derive from your statement that you believe these people "deserve to be treated below gutter trash" based on your statement because all people who early pull are the minority and are loud, selfish, and are a menace to society.

Hyperbole and sweeping broad generalizations abound, batman.

Did you read the OP? There was no drama or negativity. The OP's experience was very positive and left everyone feeling good.

I know that doesn't exactly fit into the anti-horde narrative, but that's because that narrative is false to begin with.

The drama from hunts comes from people who do resets and pull early... neither of which the majority of hunters do.

Yes, in this case the OP did a reset, but clearly he was aware of the circumstances and realized that, in this particular case, it was the right thing to do. Heck, he even put his own account at risk in order to help others. Not sure if I would have taken that risk, but props to him for making the hard call.

Are we thinking about the same OP who made the following post at the beginning of this thread? @.@

I'm still new to hunting in general. Yesterday while hunting and watching netflix my cat knocked over my controler and when I picked it up I hit X, incidentally pulling Cormu before 'the designated puller' pullled it (first off who decided on this person pulling?). I got the most, hilarious to me, series of tells from what I can assume all came from one party. I assume this it's because it was the same few who bitched, moaned and groaned about waiting 4-5 mins after it's spotted.

The tells all contained various swear words, insults about my mother and what not. All of them contained 'threats of being banned from 5 hunt shells and my FC being publicly shamed for housing an Early Puller.'

My question is this, aside from Lalafells having a temper higher then they can jump, Why are there people who take hunting as seriously as these people... and why are the so bleeding whiny about early pulls... even threatening a server wide ban list from hunting?

Because clearly she (and not he) is the OP of this entire thread and overall had a very negative experience with the whole ordeal.

[Fyce]

I'm gonna be frank here. If you pull this kind of thing with a huge-damage mob like Marraco or a petrifier like Zanig'oh, you're not gonna get thanked, you're gonna get reported, because resetting on a mob like that screws over whoever got killed/petrified for longer than the mob's average lifetime. I speak from personal experience here, I -found- Maahes once and the SMN with me didn't have a lot of time, so we shouted and then pulled after ~30 seconds. The horde proceeded to reset it TWICE, and as the party's tank I was petrified BOTH times, destroying any chance I might have had to build up enmity and get anything besides "you poked it once" credit.
This has been discussed to death on other threads, and we even had Enkatreia weigh in on it: resetting a mob can be considered harassment and can leave you subject to punishment.

Yup. Seen this happen with Maahes and Alectryon. All the cries of "omg resetting doesn't hurt anyone" make me shake my head because many of these mobs can kill/disable players and leave them getting no credit after it's reset.

Yeah, but that point only stands for two or three exceptions.
Plus, I was talking about a very low number of people; my group plus the number of people around would have made 10 at most.

So, even if a few people would have been caught petrified or dead, the number or players actually getting in the fight were at least ten times more.

The point of my post was to show that, in this situation, canceling an early pull was more beneficial for a lot of people rather that selfishness and "deal with it, I'm pulling when I want".
It was also an opportunity for me to remind people of the nature of this game: a PvE game with very little competition.
Denying people to get some Seals has absolutly no purpose and/or benefits.

[Exstal]

I reseted the bloody thing.

If I was not part of your party and there attacking, I'd report you for harassment. Watch what you do.

[MomomiMomi]

So, even if a few people would have been caught petrified or dead, the number or players actually getting in the fight were at least ten times more.

Even if it was one person who lost credit, and 100 more who got credit due to your reset, people who are not there, no matter the number, are not more entitled to the credit than the person who was already there. You are ruining it for someone who should have gotten credit. The amount of people you ruin it for doesn't matter. It's a bad thing.

[JustPlainLucas]

snip

But SE meant hunts to be for small groups, not entire servers... they said it themselves. There is no need to justify or rationalize "bad behavior" as pulling a mob and not sharing. That's a HUNT, pure and simply. Hunts don't work like that in real life. If you're a deer hunter and you see a buck, you sure aren't going to call out to every deer hunter in the forest going "Look at what I got! Come join in!" Here's the deal. The people EXPECTING to get in on a hunt that someone else found, or EXPECTING someone to reset just because their group didn't get there are more wrong than the group that actually found the mark first. And resetting a mob which could screw up someone's credit? That's more a more discourteous action towards the teams working on it than it is courteous to those who are still arriving. I had it happen to me back when Bs were still worth 5 seals. I FOUND the bloody thing, called it out, was the first to hit it, then groups who wanted in had someone reset it, and by the time it was all said and done, I got 1 seal. So actually, having people demand that you wait and demand that you reset is NOT sensible behavior; it's selfish.

[Welsper59]

So, even if a few people would have been caught petrified or dead, the number or players actually getting in the fight were at least ten times more.

I think in your case, it was... maybe okay. Was there a set pull time said in /shout? If not, you were absolutely a d-bag to reset and anyone reporting you would be right to do so. If there was a pull time established, then good on you to reset. That really would be deemed an "early" pull if the time was established to the zone, but someone (accidentally) pulled early. There were established terms beforehand, that while people won't literally show their agreement with, the fact that the target was still neutral at the time is grounds enough to be justified.

What a lot of people, including myself, often associate resets with are the people who show up AFTER another group is fighting an elite, where they come in and do everything possible to steal hate from this first group so they can reset until their LS/FC can get to it. Ridiculously, a lot of people (very stupid ones) consider that to be an "early pull" too. The absolutely flawed "greater good" perspective might see something wrong with the fact the first group didn't notify the zone (specifically anyone in that individual players Hunt LS), but they're not right to be thinking that way because it goes against how the Hunts were intended to be played out as. A small group is 100% justified to not tell anyone else that something is up, just as a Hunt LS can form 100+ people to take out a B rank elite (if that were still worth doing). Given that 100% fact about how Hunts were intended to be (as it was stated repeatedly by Yoshi-P), resetting can practically always be considered legitimate harassment if you do it. People can act like saints all they want and feel good that they falsely believe in the "greater good" perspective that they think they're following, but most of us know exactly what's going on in the context of Hunts. Never use the greater good as your defense.

[NyarukoW]

... Hunts don't work like that in real life. If you're a deer hunter and you see a buck, you sure aren't going to call out to every deer hunter in the forest going "Look at what I got! Come join in!" Here's the deal.

Actually people hunted in groups and called out to other people, just like African bushmen hunters you see hunting with a bow and arrow. But no matter, your analogy is nonsensical. First there is is no deer in game that is a elite mark, and an elite mark pays out to everybody and is not a zero-sum game like a real life deer. So people behaving badly and justifying their bad behavior is exactly what is going on here in this thread. They play the victim when other people tell them to behave better. Sure people using the foul language to chastise others deserve to reported for bad language, but people griefing the group hunts also deserve to be reported for griefing and be blacklisted and/or removed from the hunt LS. Actions have consequences. Making up stories and complaining about won't change that simple truth.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

So, even if a few people would have been caught petrified or dead, the number or players actually getting in the fight were at least ten times more.

So what you're saying is: "I don't care about those few people who might've gotten screwed over even though they were among the first on the scene, a bunch of people I don't know who had to zone in from afking in Mor Dhona can get seals instead!" Yeah, you can take your "greater good" argument and shove it. Enkatreia shot that one down too. If even one person is harmed by your willful actions in the game they can and will report you and they will be absolutely justified in doing so.