What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

[NyarukoW]

... and by reading at this thread, I have the feeling that I'm in the minority.
Should I be more selfish and tell people to "deal with it", even if this game is primarily focused on PvE content (aka: non-competitive content)?

You are NOT in the minority. The minority are the loud obnoxious selfish folks who come here in an attempt to justify and rationalize their bad behavior. They do so by making up stories and wishfully thinking that it is supposed to be competitive or how SE meant this for small groups etc. etc. They are mad that they didn't get their way in game so they come here to stink up the forums. This is their echo chamber and heave forbid we inject some reality and models for sensible behavior.

[Ghishlain]

Weighing in my random two cents.

Situation:
Someone "early" pulls a hunt mob (doesn't matter if accidental or not, just "early" pull for the main point of discussion).
After hunt dies, said person who early pulled gets several harassing tells that include explicit, derogatory, and/or racial remarks.

Let's get something clear here:
The act of early pulling not a violation of the ToS. There is not set time frames, and people waiting if just a common courtesy that they give to other players. Are there server wide nuances? Yes, there are, but the act of "early pulling", for all intents and purposes does not exist in context of how the game should be played via ToS.

Sending someone harassing tells containing explicit, derogatory remarks, racism, and/or threatening messages IS a breach of ToS and can be reported.

You are NOT in the minority. The minority are the loud obnoxious selfish folks who come here in an attempt to justify and rationalize their bad behavior. They do so by making up stories and wishfully thinking that it is supposed to be competitive or how SE meant this for small groups etc. etc. They are mad that they didn't get their way in game so they come here to stink up the forums. This is their echo chamber and heave forbid we inject some reality and models for sensible behavior.

It's funny you make a quote like this because the way you write this post, because it sounds like you're totally blind to all the negativity that an individual might face if they "early pull". In fact, one could derive from your statement that you believe these people "deserve to be treated below gutter trash" based on your statement because all people who early pull are the minority and are loud, selfish, and are a menace to society.

Hyperbole and sweeping broad generalizations abound, batman.

Did you read the OP? There was no drama or negativity. The OP's experience was very positive and left everyone feeling good.

I know that doesn't exactly fit into the anti-horde narrative, but that's because that narrative is false to begin with.

The drama from hunts comes from people who do resets and pull early... neither of which the majority of hunters do.

Yes, in this case the OP did a reset, but clearly he was aware of the circumstances and realized that, in this particular case, it was the right thing to do. Heck, he even put his own account at risk in order to help others. Not sure if I would have taken that risk, but props to him for making the hard call.

Are we thinking about the same OP who made the following post at the beginning of this thread? @.@

I'm still new to hunting in general. Yesterday while hunting and watching netflix my cat knocked over my controler and when I picked it up I hit X, incidentally pulling Cormu before 'the designated puller' pullled it (first off who decided on this person pulling?). I got the most, hilarious to me, series of tells from what I can assume all came from one party. I assume this it's because it was the same few who bitched, moaned and groaned about waiting 4-5 mins after it's spotted.

The tells all contained various swear words, insults about my mother and what not. All of them contained 'threats of being banned from 5 hunt shells and my FC being publicly shamed for housing an Early Puller.'

My question is this, aside from Lalafells having a temper higher then they can jump, Why are there people who take hunting as seriously as these people... and why are the so bleeding whiny about early pulls... even threatening a server wide ban list from hunting?

Because clearly she (and not he) is the OP of this entire thread and overall had a very negative experience with the whole ordeal.

[JustPlainLucas]

snip

But SE meant hunts to be for small groups, not entire servers... they said it themselves. There is no need to justify or rationalize "bad behavior" as pulling a mob and not sharing. That's a HUNT, pure and simply. Hunts don't work like that in real life. If you're a deer hunter and you see a buck, you sure aren't going to call out to every deer hunter in the forest going "Look at what I got! Come join in!" Here's the deal. The people EXPECTING to get in on a hunt that someone else found, or EXPECTING someone to reset just because their group didn't get there are more wrong than the group that actually found the mark first. And resetting a mob which could screw up someone's credit? That's more a more discourteous action towards the teams working on it than it is courteous to those who are still arriving. I had it happen to me back when Bs were still worth 5 seals. I FOUND the bloody thing, called it out, was the first to hit it, then groups who wanted in had someone reset it, and by the time it was all said and done, I got 1 seal. So actually, having people demand that you wait and demand that you reset is NOT sensible behavior; it's selfish.

[NyarukoW]

... Hunts don't work like that in real life. If you're a deer hunter and you see a buck, you sure aren't going to call out to every deer hunter in the forest going "Look at what I got! Come join in!" Here's the deal.

Actually people hunted in groups and called out to other people, just like African bushmen hunters you see hunting with a bow and arrow. But no matter, your analogy is nonsensical. First there is is no deer in game that is a elite mark, and an elite mark pays out to everybody and is not a zero-sum game like a real life deer. So people behaving badly and justifying their bad behavior is exactly what is going on here in this thread. They play the victim when other people tell them to behave better. Sure people using the foul language to chastise others deserve to reported for bad language, but people griefing the group hunts also deserve to be reported for griefing and be blacklisted and/or removed from the hunt LS. Actions have consequences. Making up stories and complaining about won't change that simple truth.

[Trell]

Actions have consequences. Making up stories and complaining about won't change that simple truth.

That is, how do you say, correctomundo. You would think people would learn that by age 7.

[Ghishlain]

... but people griefing the group hunts also deserve to be reported for griefing and be blacklisted and/or removed from the hunt LS. Actions have consequences. Making up stories and complaining about won't change that simple truth.

As much as I personally agree that this such actions can be perceived as griefing, you do realize there is no such thing as "an early pull" in this game, yes? It's not against the ToS to do so. Though, as our friendly neighborhood LGM has stated, the social connotations of "early pulling" can have a negative impact on their game play experience (which is another debate entirely).

In reality, the people being frozen/stoned etc. will have a better chance to get full credit because after the reset those debuffs would have had the time to wear off and they can just easily pew-pew some more and get their full credit. And that is what people do and there is no issue.The only person that has problem with that is the solo early pulling troll, who would never get full credit anyways but now has their plan to be a jerk to everyone else foiled and is really unhappy about it and resorts to complaining on the forums and making up stories.

Not always: For example, group of 2 tanks and 6 WHMs go into a S-Rank hunt. WHMs burn through all their MP using Cure III, Medica, and Medica II. Mobs get reset and all WHMS are near depleted in MP with no real way to recover that MP. How do you propose they get their contribution points now? No matter how you look at it, a reset can and most likely will harm several people despite the intentions of the reset itself.

[NyarukoW]

...
Not always: For example, group of 2 tanks and 6 WHMs go into a S-Rank hunt. WHMs burn through all their MP using Cure III, Medica, and Medica II. Mobs get reset and all WHMS are near depleted in MP with no real way to recover that MP. How do you propose they get their contribution points now? ....

When you are frozen/stoned your MP recovers. I have an alt that is a WHM. And you don't need to go all out on spamming to get full credit on a S-rank. Just 3 AOE cures of any flavor will do. There is never a case where you are low on MP while on hunts. This isn't T2 where you have to spam those heals with the enrage method for 5 minutes. All these are hypotheticals. They can happen, but the odds of them happening is like less than 0.1%. I've seen many resets, not once have I seen people complaining about not getting credit. The resets have always been welcome by many, and you can see all the shouts of thanks. And it gives the early puller cover too, people forget about what they did, or more willing to let it slide.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

When you are frozen/stoned your MP recovers. I have an alt that is a WHM. And you don't need to go all out on spamming to get full credit on a S-rank. Just 3 AOE cures of any flavor will do. There is never a case where you are low on MP while on hunts. This isn't T2 where you have to spam those heals with the enrage method for 5 minutes. All these are hypotheticals. They can happen, but the odds of them happening is like less than 0.1% of the time. I've seen many resets, not once have I seen people complaining about not getting credit. The resets have always been welcome by many, and you can see all the shouts of thanks. And it give the early puller cover too, people forget about what they did.

So I guess the lead GM weighing in and saying "this is detrimental to players and is reportable and potentially actionable" means nothing to you? The testimonials of myself and numerous others in the thread in question mean nothing to you?

[NyarukoW]

So I guess the lead GM weighing in and saying "this is detrimental to players and is reportable and potentially actionable" means nothing to you? The testimonials of myself and numerous others in the thread in question mean nothing to you?

You obviously don't understand the meaning of detrimental. When trolls are messing up hunts and being detrimental to everyone else, resets are the solution. The troll can go ahead and attempt to abuse the report system, but I'm sure the GM will dismiss their bogus claims.

And people working together trying to help everyone get full credit will not be bullied by your false claims and misleading interpretations of the TOS or GM statement.

[MomomiMomi]

When you are frozen/stoned your MP recovers. I have an alt that is a WHM. And you don't need to go all out on spamming to get full credit on a S-rank. Just 3 AOE cures of any flavor will do. There is never a case where you are low on MP while on hunts. This isn't T2 where you have to spam those heals with the enrage method for 5 minutes. All these are hypotheticals. They can happen, but the odds of them happening is like less than 0.1%.

The Hunt on your server must consist of 10 people. A ranks die in all of 10-20 seconds on more populated servers. Death/debuffs last longer than that. You also have to consider that as more people arrive, marks start to disappear, which makes it harder to hit the target to get any credit at all.

Back when people used to reset, I lost credit completely almost every time that someone did so.