Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Gilthas]

It's like you made a straw man and now you are fighting with it or something? It's hilarious
I will just reiterate my statement again, I was never talking about ff11 as a whole.

Of course you weren't. You were just cherry-picking one of the two "complex" jobs of FFXI while calling FFXIV's rotations simplistic. Even though Puppetmaster wasn't really that complex and FFXIV's simple rotations simply blow away in complexity the "rotations" that the majority of FFXI jobs used.

They even removed Thunder from Summoner's cast list for reasons unknown.

They actually made a developer post to explain that. They removed Thunder from Summoner's to reign in their DPS.

This game isn't about creativity or problem solving through diversity of abilities - it's about following the dance they set for you - either grinding something - or following a script and not messing up. Team jump rope.

I love how you guys keep parroting this catch-phrase, team jump rope. So what exactly was a game where we used creativity or problem solving through diversity of abilities? FFXI? Lol.

[Clicked]

Because we have a dungeon finder to get groups faster and SE already knows we have a wide variety of skill levels in random groups. Adding in "specs" that are just useless to the role that they are supposed to fill would just be an annoyance to the community at large.

Essentially because the game is built around set number of 3 specific roles in each group, they need jobs that can specialize in those roles. Hybrids and snowflakes are always useless in groups in the formula they are following for this game.

Even in FFXI there was customization but realistically if you wanted a good group you had only a set amount of choices per job.

[Risvertasashi]

From what I understand, people want the ability to choose from a bunch of different "styles". They also want all them to be viable.

Ehm... that's a holy grail there. I know if they add something with deep customization, a lot of configurations won't be viable in high end group play. I'd be happy with best effort and just having that ability, though.

The problem with your example is you're mixing main stats with off stats/secondary stats. You can have crit without sacrificing STR, if only the pieces you need have that as an off stat. Rather than STR vs Crit, you should be fielding DET vs Crit. There's some interesting discussion to be had there but I feel that's better left to the horizontal progression threads.

[Velox]

I really want a Support slot, that deals with buffs/defbuffs, damage mitigation and heals. Stuff like that

There is already a job like this, it's called Scholar.

Contrary to popular belief, dedicated "support" classes (as in, a class that does nothing other than buff/debuff) are not only the biggest pain in the ass to balance in any game environment, but they require an existing system to undergo thousands of dollars in alterations to accommodate said change.

[Risvertasashi]

-snip- there was customization but realistically if you wanted a good group you had only a set amount of choices per job.

Some choices are better than none, IMO.

[cryptic_angel]

Of course you weren't. You were just cherry-picking one of the two "complex" jobs of FFXI while calling FFXIV's rotations simplistic. Even though Puppetmaster wasn't really that complex and FFXIV's simple rotations simply blow away in complexity the "rotations" that the majority of FFXI jobs used.



They actually made a developer post to explain that. They removed Thunder from Summoner's to reign in their DPS.

I did not pick Pup, the thread did. Again, you are arguing with a point that I never made.

[ApolloGenX]

Quite frankly, the only time I've seen lots of variety in play was in EQ... and that was done by a team that unabashedly told players they were using the "Vision" tm.

In other words, they said, "Yes there are lots of different playstyles and classes... but this is the holy trinity - tank,cc,cleric - DEAL WITH IT".

Players complained, but eventually just accepted it... there were still plenty of hybrid class players. You just knew if you played one of those "special" classes you would get a group.

Players nowadays don't seem to be as accepting of that idea... probably because gaming has moved so far away from the D&D rule set.

I love how you guys keep parroting this catch-phrase, team jump rope. So what exactly was a game where we used creativity or problem solving through diversity of abilities? FFXI? Lol.

Everquest - Devs would even watch to see how guilds would defeat encounters, since there were so many different ways they could be done. Many times things were defeated using strategies devs didn't even consider. I dunno how many times our high end guild defeated something only to have an invis dev pop up and congratulate us... we always knew they were there.... lurking... watching.... making sure there were no exploits going on.... sneeky hobbitzes!!

[Sonofbaldo]

I've never seen so much excuse making in my life. Some of you act like SE doesnt have nearing 40 years of experience in RPG's and almost 15 in MMO's. You act like its some fledgling company making their first ever game.

I'm not even going to bother pulling out quotes from all the hypocrites who insinuate that people who's opinions differ are not the "target audience". Such arrogance. Just because you blindly love everything this game produces doesn't mean you are the sole target audience. If games cater to one side of the coin they will die and die quickly as it dissolves into a small band of die hards which seems to be already happening.

The dev team has time and again said XIV's impossible to achieve goal is to please everyone. Anybody who has half a brain knows that that is impossible. It is just an excuse to be gutless with their choices. An excuse to play everything safe and let other game companies take the design risks so they can just copy them later.

As for the people who say it took XI years to get End Game content, it also took that long to get to the point where you were ready for End Game. The world was rich with content leading to that point. It was a journey. It wasnt...ok i'm going to put my pants on and run a handful of chores and wham bam thank you ma'am lets do this End Game stuff!!!!

Also the elitist demands of wearing certain gear, or playing certain subs, and all of those other things did not run rampant in XI till well after ToAU. I would also like to break the news to you that those players that made and enforced those rules by shunning people are the very people that defend XIV the way it is now. Look in the mirrors kiddies, because you are the ones that started this. That's why video games have to be so simple now. So if you think you are the majority and the "target audience", you are the elitists who cried and whined until everything had to be your way.

Just thought I'd throw in a dose of reality.

[Zumi]

In FFXIV there is a class/job system in place where every class and job gets an skill at set levels. Everyone has the same amount of abilities. This is not the case in FFXI, they didn't have this rule so you got jobs with lots of abilities and spells and jobs with much fewer.

Each job in FFXIV has a set role this isn't the same in FFXI, certain jobs like blu, and pup could be tailored to do different things.

This is a different game with different game systems what worked in FFXI won't necessarily work in FFXIV.

[Risvertasashi]

Of course you weren't. You were just cherry-picking one of the two "complex" jobs of FFXI while calling FFXIV's rotations simplistic.

For that particular example, it's not the rotation, it's the setup and configuration possibilities.

There is already a job like this, it's called Scholar.

Contrary to popular belief, dedicated "support" classes (as in, a class that does nothing other than buff/debuff) are not only the biggest pain in the ass to balance in any game environment, but they require an existing system to undergo thousands of dollars in alterations to accommodate said change.

SCH is one of the most fascinating jobs in the game, IMO. I actually think SE did pretty well here. I've seen shielding/mitigating healers before, but not pet based healers.