SMN BIS 2.3

[Judge_Xero]

I have a feeling that whatever example I choose will be nitpicked anyway and I don't want to enter a battle of "ifs.

No one is saying Spell Speed is a good stat but to say it is near useless is a lie.

He he yeah. Sorry wasn't trying to be rude or anything like that. It is really hard to make a point that SMN damage is effected by any fight mechanics.

You're right, that Spell Speed isn't completely worthless, because it does lower your cast/recast time. (even more so on Shadow Flare, Summon and Raise)

SPD ∝ CRIT/DET as CRIT/DET ∝ INT so pretty low on the Totem Pole.

[Dwill]

He he yeah. Sorry wasn't trying to be rude or anything like that. It is really hard to make a point that SMN damage is effected by any fight mechanics.

You're right, that Spell Speed isn't completely worthless, because it does lower your cast/recast time. (even more so on Shadow Flare, Summon and Raise)

SPD ∝ CRIT/DET as CRIT/DET ∝ INT so pretty low on the Totem Pole.

No worries, it didn't sound rude or anything. It's just that in a thread about BiS and min-maxing, I'd rather discuss about how Spell Speed can be beneficial to us even though it's so terrible since we're obviously stuck with it than discredit it as useless.

I agree that it it is utterly low in term of priority.

[Judge_Xero]

No worries, it didn't sound rude or anything. It's just that in a thread about BiS and min-maxing, I'd rather discuss about how Spell Speed can be beneficial to us even though it's so terrible since we're obviously stuck with it than discredit it as useless.

I agree that it it is utterly low in term of priority.

Well doing a quick math check based on all the best gear that have spell speed and with 486 accuracy, any fights where you can use Ifrit, full spell speed (511 with food) might actually be good.
I.e. lower Crit, but more attacks from Ifrit (compared to Garuda) to activate Enhanced. So ideally you stay close to 2.24GCD 10% faster casts vs the 3% damage you lose from BiS.

Edited

[Sparktacus]

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NHO3

Thats probably what I will use at some point, but since im already true 110 w/ book I couldnt care less anymore, the dps difference is negligible at best. You should view gear as glamour to show off instead of clutch to beat content, since when we downed T9 most of us were under i95. I use ifrit for T6/T8, garuda for everything else.

Just so you know , using Deviled Eggs to meet accuracy cap is useless since it does not affect pet.

[Illa]

The strength if your DoTs are stronger using a max Det novus or a book of spades then using a HA book.

However the overall strength of your spells like Ruins and Fester do "decrease". Reason for quotes is more the window of damage is greater on the lower end. You can still hit as high as the HA book with say a Fester but you can also hit lower more often.

I hate to break it to you, but the only thing that DET augments is your Ruin, Ruin 2 and Fester damage. It does not augment any of your DoT damage by any significant amount. Considering that most of your damage dealt is from DoTs, it would be foolish to not try to increase that damage as much as possible. INT has always been the only way to raise your DoT damage and raising your DET is only valuable up to a certain point, so the DR on critical strike rate is not so heavy. Like accuracy, once DET reaches a certain point, the value per point greatly diminishes.

[skaterger]

The strength if your DoTs are stronger using a max Det novus or a book of spades then using a HA book.

However the overall strength of your spells like Ruins and Fester do "decrease". Reason for quotes is more the window of damage is greater on the lower end. You can still hit as high as the HA book with say a Fester but you can also hit lower more often.

After getting my HA book, I was looking at the numbers in coil and it seemed that it hardly increased, if any at all from the Book of Spades. I thought it was definitely a mistake or a bug or something until I read this today. So I was intrigued and went to test on a training dummy and over the course of 30 dot ticks, the average tick from BB2M seemed to be around 360-400 per tick without food. The highest tick for HA was 415 whereas there was a tick from BOS at 482. I also did further testing of a 3 min rotation on a dummy and I hit 415 d[s with BOS and 420 dps with HA which was really shocking since an upgrade from i110 to HA was at least a 20-30 dps increase for other classes. So does this mean that det>crit and also what is the reason for the dots having the same/slightly higher tick than HA?

[Dwill]

I hate to break it to you, but the only thing that DET augments is your Ruin, Ruin 2 and Fester damage. It does not augment any of your DoT damage by any significant amount. Considering that most of your damage dealt is from DoTs, it would be foolish to not try to increase that damage as much as possible. INT has always been the only way to raise your DoT damage and raising your DET is only valuable up to a certain point, so the DR on critical strike rate is not so heavy. Like accuracy, once DET reaches a certain point, the value per point greatly diminishes.

I hate to break it to you but sacrificing too much DET for a pittance worth of INT isn't better either. Also, DoTs makes up between 40-45% of your damage% of your damage with the remaining damage coming from Wind Blade, Enkindle, Fester, Ruin I, Ruin II

The thing about DET isn't the astonishing amount it gives to one DoT, it is its effect of affecting every single spell you cast, which includes every single DoT which adds up over time. Near BiS level of gear, your Int will not move a lot but depending on your choices of gear, your secondary stats can and picking up a balanced amount of CRT and DET will yield better results than just picking 2 INT and sacrificing 20-30 DET for it.

After getting my HA book, I was looking at the numbers in coil and it seemed that it hardly increased, if any at all from the Book of Spades. I thought it was definitely a mistake or a bug or something until I read this today. So I was intrigued and went to test on a training dummy and over the course of 30 dot ticks, the average tick from BB2M seemed to be around 360-400 per tick without food. The highest tick for HA was 415 whereas there was a tick from BOS at 482. I also did further testing of a 3 min rotation on a dummy and I hit 415 d[s with BOS and 420 dps with HA which was really shocking since an upgrade from i110 to HA was at least a 20-30 dps increase for other classes. So does this mean that det>crit and also what is the reason for the dots having the same/slightly higher tick than HA?

DET and CRT have an approximately equal value. The reason your damage didn't spike up really high between Book of Spades and High Allagan is the lose of DET for Spell Speed but the gain of 2 Weapon Damage and 15 CRT and for summoner, damage increase via Weapon Damage is not as high as melee since the base is so high to begin with.

So in the end, High Allagan is an upgrade from Book of Spades but it is a little one, not a big one like melees.

[skaterger]

DET and CRT have an approximately equal value. The reason your damage didn't spike up really high between Book of Spades and High Allagan is the lose of DET for Spell Speed but the gain of 2 Weapon Damage and 15 CRT and for summoner, damage increase via Weapon Damage is not as high as melee since the base is so high to begin with.

So in the end, High Allagan is an upgrade from Book of Spades but it is a little one, not a big one like melees.

Ok so based on a pure numbers standpoint, you get 3 int, 2 WD and 15 crit for HA vs 31 det for BOS. If crit and det are approximately equal, that means 3 int + 2 WD is only slightly better than 16 det? It really seems like crit/det is pretty undervalued or WD really sucks for summoner.

Interesting. I just got my HA book recently. First raid I was able to use it was last week. I noticed my numbers increase by roughly 20-40 DPS over previous weeks. Increases of roughly 40 DPS t6-8 and about 20+ on t9. But this was also upgrading from ST legs to i110 soldiery legs. So a good chunk of that damage could also be from that rather large upgrade. 29 det that I did not have before.

I am behind on soldiery gear because I was a late re-roll to SMN from DRG and BRD prior. 2 weeks til I get my soldiery body and then I just need the HA ring for full BiS.

Hey if you could, test out on a dummy with the HA and BOS but with the same gear for everything else and get back to us? Cuz I'm only seeing a 5-10 dps increase using HA. It would be quite interesting..

[RinchanNau]

Interesting. I just got my HA book recently. First raid I was able to use it was last week. I noticed my numbers increase by roughly 20-40 DPS over previous weeks. Increases of roughly 40 DPS t6-8 and about 20+ on t9. But this was also upgrading from ST legs to i110 soldiery legs. So a good chunk of that damage could also be from that rather large upgrade. 29 det that I did not have before.

I am behind on soldiery gear because I was a late re-roll to SMN from DRG and BRD prior. 2 weeks til I get my soldiery body and then I just need the HA ring for full BiS.

[RinchanNau]

Hey if you could, test out on a dummy with the HA and BOS but with the same gear for everything else and get back to us? Cuz I'm only seeing a 5-10 dps increase using HA. It would be quite interesting..

I can do that tonight with a few different configs. Since I'm pretty new to SMN still I try things out Garuda only, Ifrit only, and pet swap after RS contagion. Last night I saw pretty similar results from both Garuda and Ifrit. Pet damage is 20-25 higher with Ifrit, but my damage is 20-25 lower. Balances out. And obviously in an actual fight Garuda may come out ahead if there is a lot of movement and/or opportunities to make use of things like using bane on contagioned dots.

Last week in coil I used Ifrit to get said results. This week will be Garuda only. Same gear. Well, last week I pet swapped the opener for t9 and during Heavensfall. But ehh... not going to try any such things this week.

I do have a question about SMN that's probably been discussed plenty before. Is Miasma 2 really worth using with contagion? I have been using it most of the time but have thought about dropping it. The potency seemingly isn't worth the MP cost if it forces me to use energy drain over fester more than I would be otherwise.