Thread: SMN BIS 2.3

Originally Posted by Dwill

Breaking Vines in T6 and Cursed Shriek in T7 are examples.

Not to nit pick, but those aren't good examples.
Breaking vines takes like half a second with Sprint, and Dots don't typically need a refresh during them.

Shriek is an 8 second counter, so plenty of time to refresh dots if required before moving into position.

I don't think there's actually any scripted or random parts of a fight that effects Summoner and would require faster casting.

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Yes, but you have to consider micro managing your pet on top of OGCD abilities. Any loss in using a GCD skill from shortening the Recast time is wasted damage. (Fester+Contagion, Rouse/Spur Aerial Slash, Bane)

Spell Speed is completely counter productive to SMN design and is a terrible stat.

You can use pet abilities even while casting a spell that isn't instant-cast, so I don't really get the issue here. You can easily just keep casting non-stop as you activate pet abilities with no time lost. How much SS you have has no impact on your ability to use OGCD and Pet Abilities without losing DPS.

Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

You can use pet abilities even while casting a spell that isn't instant-cast, so I don't really get the issue here. You can easily just keep casting non-stop as you activate pet abilities with no time lost. How much SS you have has no impact on your ability to use OGCD and Pet Abilities without losing DPS.

Yes, but there is timing of skills as well.

Take T8 as an example when Dreads spawn.

R2 on Boss, Rouse, Bane, SC Shadow Flare, Virus on Dread/Obey, R2, Fester, Aerial Slash, Ruin.
You need to fit a lot between that GCD, and while pet commands can still be used during a cast, the pet buffs can not.

Edit: (Was on phone and typing is a pain) Also add in the time to actually use the skills, whether mouse click or keyboard bindings. (or Gamepad ><)

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Yes, but there is timing of skills as well.

Take T8 as an example when Dreads spawn.

R2 on Boss, Rouse, Bane, SC Shadow Flare, Virus on Dread/Obey, R2, Fester, Aerial Slash, Ruin.
You need to fit a lot between that GCD, and while pet commands can still be used during a cast, the pet buffs can not.

Why're you using Aerial Slash on a single target?

Originally Posted by Dwill

I have a feeling that whatever example I choose will be nitpicked anyway and I don't want to enter a battle of "ifs.

No one is saying Spell Speed is a good stat but to say it is near useless is a lie.

He he yeah. Sorry wasn't trying to be rude or anything like that. It is really hard to make a point that SMN damage is effected by any fight mechanics.

You're right, that Spell Speed isn't completely worthless, because it does lower your cast/recast time. (even more so on Shadow Flare, Summon and Raise)

SPD ∝ CRIT/DET as CRIT/DET ∝ INT so pretty low on the Totem Pole.

Originally Posted by Dwill

No worries, it didn't sound rude or anything. It's just that in a thread about BiS and min-maxing, I'd rather discuss about how Spell Speed can be beneficial to us even though it's so terrible since we're obviously stuck with it than discredit it as useless.

I agree that it it is utterly low in term of priority.

Well doing a quick math check based on all the best gear that have spell speed and with 486 accuracy, any fights where you can use Ifrit, full spell speed (511 with food) might actually be good.
I.e. lower Crit, but more attacks from Ifrit (compared to Garuda) to activate Enhanced. So ideally you stay close to 2.24GCD 10% faster casts vs the 3% damage you lose from BiS.

Edited