SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Mcshiggs]

What kind of organization hosting a race wouldn't have it timed? This is just a terrible analogy. Every MMO makes you feel like a hero, and almost all of them have built in parsers or app support. The people pointing out you are a bad DPS and saying they are parsing you are just harassing you, and they would be harassing players regardless of third party software.

See this is the problem when you try to compare something like a video game with something like sprinting, when you look at it one way, it makes perfect sense, then when someone takes it to refute your point, it becomes a terrible analogy. Maybe there isn't any organization that would ban stopwatches, but if there was, using one would be cheating, and I can go outside and race someone, you don't need to time us to tell who won. See SE has said that using parsers is against the rules, cheating, so using them is against the rules, cheating. As for harassing players if you have a parser, you have numerical proof, without it, right or wrong, you are just talking.
You say that almost all MMOs have built in parsers or app support, well that is a useless argument, because this game states that using them is against ToS, if they change it in the future ok, but saying they will change it in the future doesn't ok the use of them now.

[Reynhart]

Teleporting

Would also be quicker

than walking.

And using a bot crafts or harvests

for you

and does it

more efficiently than a person

Radar for hunts ? Not a big deal...after all,

all it does is compile large quantities of data

to give you an edge on spawns.

Oh, and maybe you missed the part where it's forbidden to use 3rd party program. Thus...cheating

[Ryel]

And this is where things are going to get fuzzy. IFF (not a typo, if and only if) it turns out they wish to crack down on parsers. How do they enforce it? Anyone who gets reported for it is now in trouble? No, that won't happen. They'll have to use some sort of metric to detect it. Of course detecting changes done to the contents of the \\Documents\My Games\FINAL FANTASY XIV - A Realm Reborn\ folder is going to result in many many false postitives. Especially since the log files share the same location as the screenshots.

And to go further on that. If they want to restrict that, do they restrict screenshots too? I mean log files and screenshots both share the following characteristics: They are both in the same folder. They are both output by the game. Neither are used by the game executable during play.

If i recall correctly the first time a thread regarding SE's concerns on parsers was posted (during 2.0) the question initially came up in regards to a warning a player received for talking about one in game during the course of calling out the DPS (or lack thereof) of another player.

Obviously there is no way SE can know what you do or don't have installed client side without allowing the game to install rather intrusive software to scan your system (there are a few games that do this). However what they CAN do is review the in game chat logs should you be reported for harassment and clearly see if someone says "Well your DPS is X because this program says so" at which point action can be taken.

Those who played FFXI will remember similar discussions about the use of 3rd party programs that allowed you to parse data and see things like party member TP and the same rules generally applied, if there was enough in-game proof of a player speaking about or using one to harass another player then it was grounds for a GM to take action.

Also Parsers like the ones I have been describing are completely stand alone programs that do not need the game to be running (or even installed as the logs remain after uninstall) to function. In fact I don't even think the game can delete or alter those files itself without elevated priveledges in Windows

SE is likely not to condone one 3rd party program over another regardless of how it functions until they add official addon support to the game, and even then those programs that they do approve will most likely be required to have features that meet a set of guidelines.

This allows them to control what they do and don't want the playerbase to have access to, at which point it can be inferred that any third party game related program that can be used detrimentally (see: to harass) or to gain advantage (see: exploit) will most likely fall under grounds for account action / termination.

This is very much a "Their house, their rules" scenario

I don't see the issue here. Whether I look at the log and count up the damage and divide by the time, or let a program or spreadsheet do it for me, whats the difference? Just like in your example with TS being the same as using a cellphone, or other means of comms.

Again I'm talking about non-overlayed, non-datamining means of parsing. Aka, using the logs. I don't advocate messing with actual installed files (in harddrive or RAM) or data in IP packets.

Fundamentally i agree with you,

The players that have issues with simply parsing will likely have the same grievances against stopwatches or calculators, as parsing (strictly parsing only) is harmless in what it does as a tool of calculation. unfortunately players themselves are not as unbiased or objective as numbers are and the potential for harassment is a very real thing.

Now while i personally see that the benefits outweigh the detriments when it comes to this we're talking about the same company that once again has disallowed /tells in dungeons for similar reasons.

Ironically though it's hard not to find amusement in the many players who will rally out against the perceived "evils" of parsing out of a fear of being called out or dealing with other players, but will still reap the benefits of those that use them to determine things like optimal rotations or BiS gear setups.

If the perception of this is to change (and it most likely won't) the case will have to continue to be made for an in-game feature to allow us to see player performance (which I'll surely advocate for right along with anyone else).

But as far as 3rd party applications go in this case (parsing / data calculation) it would appear that their stance is clear.

[Renault]

You need parsers for a game that requires any sort of tight dps check.
Because you need data.
Because you need to maximize dps.
GW2 for example, did not need a parser.
This game does.

K.

[Reynhart]

"Requires", no less ?!
You realize a lot of people manage to play without using a parser, right ?

[HeroSamson]

The person that said the parser is to help better each other made me laugh, so when someone doesn't meet your standards in the party kicking is helping them hahaha.

[Reynhart]

The person that said the parser is to help better each other made me laugh, so when someone doesn't meet your standards in the party kicking is helping them hahaha.

Maybe if you harass them enough, they'll be disgusted of the game, quit and find a lot more interesting things to do with their life.
So...it's helping...from a certain point of view

[Crysten]

The irony of this entire conversation is that a lot of the time you don't even need a parser to tell who is the dead weight DPS in a party and thus, those people are going to be singled out regardless of whether a parse fully confirms it or not.

[Appleh4x]

"Requires", no less ?!
You realize a lot of people manage to play without using a parser, right ?

Yeah, and you realize that a lot of people (like yourself) don't do endgame raiding that has DPS checks too, right? If the game didn't have strict DPS checks people wouldn't use a parser, but it does, you just don't know about them.

[NinjaTaru72]

Lol at this thread.

TThis is one of the reasons I'm taking a break from the game. To much fighting over this. I'm very anti parser for people who use it on other players. They can cause trouble. Though I had a friend who would parse for my group if we asked.

I almost started a long post.... But I'm stopping myself and going back to lurking XD