So resetting's against the rules now?

[Krr]

I've removed an off topic philosophical discussion about oppression and gender. Let's keep the discussion on topic, since continuing this type of negative, off topic discussion in the thread will result in forum account actions. As well, should it continue, the thread may need to be locked, closing off all discussion about this topic.

LGM Enkrateia

Thank god. (You missed a spot. I've flagged it for you.)

[R1dder]

honestly hate ppl who resets marks... Every tank wanna display a good-guy attitude, but really when u've been hunting for a while it's just frustrating. You have no right to stop players from doing marks without the presence of ur entire FC.

[Hyrist]

Bare minimum solution is to not reset contribution on reset. I can see little to no downside in doing this.

I do: When do you stop resetting the monster? That system would be ripe for abuse by the players as a whole. "Reset farming" which could be attributed to something along the lines of Win Trading. There's no control as to when the monster should actually die.

I don't understand why these spawn instances can't just be points of interest on the map that are up for specific periods of time, and parties can click on it to engage the monster (An instance of said monster Duty Claimed to them, similar to Treasure Hunts) in their own fashion while the timer is still up. It would still be spontaneous, it would still require players to scouer the countryside, and it would still inspire people to make groups together - but it would remove these sense of unnecessary competition and the need to force one philosophy of play to conform to another by force of numbers.

[Welsper59]

They did this in FFXI, which lead to other parties making HUGE attempts at MPKing the party that tagged the boss as well as griefing them as hard as possible. It also lead to a spat of claim bots looking to claim these elusive HNMs, so sadly, this isn't a solution either.

I do like the scaling idea though, wonder how hard that'd be to implement.

In terms of removing leashing, that leads to another form of potential griefing in the sense that people drag level 50 mobs throughout the zone and use their AoEs to kill under leveled players or just players in town centres, etc. Sure, the mob will die faster as an entire town leaps onto it, but I imagine you can see a potential issue here too. As others have mentioned, if they change it so it re-engages the 2nd highest enmity player there, that would solve the whole reset thing too.

Agreed on the FFXI bit. At this stage, and with the warped perspectives of the player base at a minimal common courtesy level, leash removing is just gonna create more problems. I'd honestly prefer a bandaid fix to demoralize the behavior rather than see anything truly drastic. Maybe resets will result in the target instantly killing the player that reset it (after a claim... body pulling a neutral does not make this happen). Again, band-aid fix until such a time that the hunts are not so rampantly done. By then, they may not even need to undo that insta-kill thing, they could just revert the changes made to how it was originally designed (B = solo/duo, A = light party, S = full party/alliance).

Of course, that's just more of a wishful thinking to punish bad behavior at an otherwise acceptable degree. While it wouldn't outright stop it, at least those negatively affected by that player get the satisfaction that the acting player was killed off in the process (so they can't just rush back and hope to do it again, even with a rez due to the debuff).

[Aylis]

They did this in FFXI

We had a similar problem in EverQuest when named monsters spawned and other players would train the party engaged in an effort to kill them to steal the credit. Though like XI that was in the day when monsters wouldn't reset or leash back to spawn points. I don't see the same issue happening in XIV just because, monsters do leash and, to be honest the rest of the outer world content is...not really all that dangerous. At most maybe a person could train 1-2 monsters on a engaged hunt target party that for the most part are easy kills and can be ignored by a full party. I can't think of any other way a party can be griefed in this matter so if I missed something please tell me. Assuming if leashing is still in play.

As for scaling, the technology has been around for quite a while now and can be easily used.

[Ghishlain]

I've removed an off topic philosophical discussion about oppression and gender. Let's keep the discussion on topic, since continuing this type of negative, off topic discussion in the thread will result in forum account actions. As well, should it continue, the thread may need to be locked, closing off all discussion about this topic.

LGM Enkrateia

Thank you for your work and effort, as well as your feed back throughout the matter, Enkrateia.

We had a similar problem in EverQuest when named monsters spawned and other players would train the party engaged in an effort to kill them to steal the credit. Though like XI that was in the day when monsters wouldn't reset or leash back to spawn points. I don't see the same issue happening in XIV just because, monsters do leash and, to be honest the rest of the outer world content is...not really all that dangerous. At most maybe a person could train 1-2 monsters on a engaged hunt target party that for the most part are easy kills and can be ignored by a full party. I can't think of any other way a party can be griefed in this matter so if I missed something please tell me. Assuming if leashing is still in play.

As for scaling, the technology has been around for quite a while now and can be easily used.

Yes, I will agree, the world of XIV is certainly much less dangerous than the world of XI, so it might not be an issue of trying to MPK the tagging party, though I imagine claim bots will still be used to try to tag these mobs if they are made to only be engaged by that individual's party.

[Giantbane]

I do: When do you stop resetting the monster? That system would be ripe for abuse by the players as a whole. "Reset farming" which could be attributed to something along the lines of Win Trading. There's no control as to when the monster should actually die.

You have to be in the zone to get credit. How long are you going to sit in the zone and wait for the damn thing to die before you're allowed to leave? I don't think people will wait forever.

[Aylis]

Yes, I will agree, the world of XIV is certainly much less dangerous than the world of XI, so it might not be an issue of trying to MPK the tagging party, though I imagine claim bots will still be used to try to tag these mobs if they are made to only be engaged by that individual's party.

Oh I imagine so too, but to solve that issue? That falls completely in the hands of Square Enix staff and GM's. If a person is proved of hacking and cheating to save the spawn or botting. Then a flat out ban for them. Other wise a legitimate player alone against a fight meant to challenge 8 players I don't think would last very long alone. Its all in the fight coding and mechanics.

[Hyrist]

You have to be in the zone to get credit. How long are you going to sit in the zone and wait for the damn thing to die before you're allowed to leave? I don't think people will wait forever.

Right, but then you get into the argument along the lines of:

"Hey, kill it already! I've been here for a half hour!"

"OMG NO WAIT WHY DID YOU KILL IT, MY LS IS STILL COMING!"

- All for a monster worth 5 Allied seals.

An extreme case to be sure, but a valid one still the same. As a matter of opinion, I'd prefer a more solid solution to the content flooding problem we have than continual band-aids. The reset matter would, in my view, still be a band aid.


Some reasons in brief:
It still encourages conformist behavior for open world content.
It still forces fights designed for 4,8, and 24 players respectively to try to saddle the burden of 30+ Players and rapidly growing by the minute every time it spawns. (In short, no method for participation scaling.)
It still enables content denial enforced by players. (Players force resetting until the next window will open during their groups ideal time under the guise of "We're helping people!")

Edit: I apologize but I must excuse myself from the conversation on account of severe back pain. I may return at a later time to reengage on the topic if it remains unlocked and not stagnant.

[Welsper59]

I agree!

But that is just one of many possible things that could happen. Not all reasons for resetting are "right." Just like not all early pulls are "right."

The only thing clear is what's against the rules and what's not... but that's not the same as right and wrong.

I think you need to establish what you think an "early pull" is. Is it when a different group pulls an elite when your group (or whoevers) isn't around at the time, making them the only ones around? Because I can flat out tell you, that's not an "early pull" in the same context of what would justifiably be called that.

The justified reasons to reset are VERY few and very specific in situation. As in maybe 2 or 3 reasons. One of which is simply a "mistake" or negligence, which can easily be proven against you if it happens repeatedly (even across more than just this one target). Another would be one we can all agree with, being that there was a proposed time to pull a currently neutral mob, and someone pulled earlier than that. There really aren't many other reasons beyond those 2 that could rightfully be harmless or acceptable.