atma drop rates

[RiceisNice]

Then I'm at the part where I just simply don't agree with that ideology and probability, i or at least the fact that it's applicable in this situation. Not much else to say beyond that; I don't feel that you're increasing any chances of obtaining an Atma if it remains the same rate, whether it be doing 10 FATEs in 10 minutes in a hardcore grind or 10 FATEs in 30 minutes at a leisurely pace.

Yep, it sure is.

If one person does 1 FATE per day and another person does 30 FATEs per day, the person doing 30 per day is probably going to get all 12 much quicker.
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That's where I'd have trouble believing that this actually improves the odds of getting an Atma. I don't see the probability thing being applicable in something like this. I've had parties a couple of times and we've even come to a complete stop at times because the entire map was cleared of FATEs.

[Ringabell]

Then I'm at the part where I just simply don't agree with that ideology and probability, i or at least the fact that it's applicable in this situation. Not much else to say beyond that; I don't feel that you're increasing any chances of obtaining an Atma if it remains the same rate, whether it be doing 10 FATEs in 10 minutes in a hardcore grind or 10 FATEs in 30 minutes at a leisurely pace.

If it's 10 FATEs in 10 minutes vs. 10 FATEs in 30 minutes, you're talking about the same percentage.

That's not what we're talking about.

Let's look at the two people in your example:

Why are we assuming Person A is grinding less time? If someone does 10 FATEs in 10 minutes, they're doing 30 FATEs in that 30 minutes.

With that in mind let's compare them again.

Person A does 30 FATEs in 30 minutes and Person B does 10 FATEs in 30 minutes...one-third as many.

If they keep up this pace, with Person A tripling Person B's output, who is more likely to get their 12 atma first?

[RiceisNice]

This is where my mentality kicks in. I can say that Person A has a higher likelihood, if only because he's doing more FATEs, but it does not equate to where he has anything higher than 3% of getting an Atma. FATE grinding or not, I look at it on per-FATE basis. 3% to get an ATMA from one, 3% to get an Atma from either of the two FATEs (instead of 4.5% of getting an Atma from two FATEs). I just don't believe in probability when it comes to actual practice.

There's that off chance that person B can get an Atma where Person A doesn't, or even person C who comes out of nowhere and gets his Atma on his first FATE (which has happened on at least 2 occasions on my end).

That's what I'm trying to get at. You could tackle 100+ FATEs and still end up with nothing. There's no sense of progress and it feel futile at times.

[Avarghaladion]

That's where I'd have trouble believing that this actually improves the odds of getting an Atma. I don't see the probability thing being applicable in something like this. I've had parties a couple of times and we've even come to a complete stop at times because the entire map was cleared of FATEs.

It doesn't improve the odds per attempt but each attempt improves the odds of getting Atma relative to the number of overall attempts in accordance with the formula P = 1 - (1-x)^y where P is the probability of getting one drop in y attempts at a drop percentage of x. This merely reinforces the common knowledge that more attempts = better overall chances of success at least once. This is facile though and I'm not sure why some people keep brining it up like it's the key to Atma farming... everyone already attempts to do this when Atma farming whether they know it or not. It's how you fundamentally play the game. This isn't the problem. For any pedants out there, the issue is exactly that stated in the thread's title: the drop rate is too low. The rate at which the item drops relative to the number of FATEs we run is what's being addressed here, not the drops per time. That is merly a side effect of the exceptionally low drop rate. Using sheer probability it is demonstratable that the RNG aspect of Atma is totally unacceptable.

Go ahead and plug 0.03 and 100 into that equation for x and y, respectively. At a 3% drop rate there's a 95% chance you'll get at least one drop in those 100 attempts. Now plug in 0.01 for x, representing a 1% drop rate. There would be a 63% chance of you getting at least 1 Atma in 100 fates at a 1% drop rate. Now.... this may appear reasonable but we must realize that there are lots of people who go hundreds and hundreds of FATEs without a drop. By the apologists' own logic this is probabilistically unreasonable in the number of people we're seeing with this extremely common issue. Furthermore, claiming these have a 3% drop rate is extremely generous. We have people approaching 1000 FATEs before they get an Atma weapon and others who aren't even that lucky.... meanwhile there are people on the forums, lambasting others, who got theirs in less than 100.

[Axlle10]

The quote is too messy.
You got the single phrases and cut them out of their context.
The grind is something very long and, for most players, boring. The grind is, by definition, something you don't like doing, that leads to a very good reward.
You can't ask for equality in an RNG-based grind, it's stupid.
Accept it, or don't do it, because atma grinding is not "for the skin", but for the animus: it's like saying that Hydra and Chimera are useless because I spent more time doing Ifrit-Garuda-Titan than them. You don't do animus by completing 9 books, you do it by completing A relic reborn, then grinding 12 atmas, then completing 9 books. You didn't spend more time grinding atmas than doing animus, because you were doing animus all along.

Did not take any of your statements out of context. those were the core statements of your arguments. Its sad that you beat around the bush and try to justify a broken system with a logical fallacy. Its not always possible to farm efficiently, i proved you were wrong on that. The grind was not very long for some players, i proved you were wrong on that as well. Equality indeed can happen. Smart game companies have done it, and they continue to do it. SE even did it when they gave multiple ways on how you can obtain the Animus/Novus upgrades. People love options, and thats what they should have done for something so meaningless as just a new skin. So.... guess what, proved you wrong on that too

And if we were talking about the absolute start of the relic quest > Novus then yes, atma is not just for a skin. But guess what. This topic concerns ONLY the atma stage. Nothing of the animus and novus systems are being discussed here.

So basically you are stating all opinions on how you gathered all 12 atma. You never had to deal with any of the issues that most others have. You are turning a blind eye to any sort of logical reasoning as to why its not good for a game to block something behind a purely RNG system with such a small reward as a new skin.

it's getting to the point that getting this weapon is starting to make this game a lot less fun

and when game companies see a lot of these, they tend to do something sooner or later, which they have already said they are doing. But now its just going to be save up 1300 soldiery and get a UAT from ST. and thats all people are gonna do till they fix this broken system.

[YanDere]

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All of what you said has been explained with simple math, just scroll up and look for that.

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I understand how you feel, however, it's just a fact. It's true that you don't get your atma for sure doing that, but you actually increase the odds, regardless of how much do you feel that. It's a fact.

Avarghaladion-chan said I'm sticking with that strategy like it's "the key" or something, but it's just the fastest way to get atmas, simple as that. Like exping with Dzemael farm, it's just the fastest way, I'm not saying it's "the key to getting drops and makes everything fast and easy".
You'll still need from 1 day to 2-3 weeks, but it's definitely better than 2-3 months farming slowly.

And Axlle10, if you played any other big RPG you know there's almost always a weapon with a luck-based system. And 3% is pretty common as drop rate, even quite high, thinking of most RNG weapons in videogames. We can even speak about Patapon 3, in which final weapons have 0,1% drop rate from the final multiplayer dungeon which requires 15-30 minutes if done very fast.

[winsock]

Lol, pages of discussion about how drop rates and RNG work...

The issue with atma farming is that it isn't fun. I had 1 piece take me near 10 hrs of farming before it dropped. Grinding for that long against low lvl content, without making any progress, is not fun. These fates aren't risky or challenging, don't offer valuable rewards (save atma), and you have no idea what the value of your time spent will be.

The books to do the animus upgrade are much better, imo. It will likely take me longer than the initial upgrade to atma, but I can see my progress and aside from waiting for the occasional fate, have an idea about the amount of benefit I receive for the time I invest.

[RiceisNice]

...

That's what I feel is the biggest problem in the design of the Atma. Who is it directed to? The amount of RNG and possible time invested requirement, especially for this segment isn't directed to people who'd spend 2-3 hours a day on the game. The end reward is weaker than HA weapons for people who can regularly clear those sections. The idea of making a party to "farm/grind" FATEs defeats the purpose of helping out actual lowbies (since you're clearing them before anyone can get to it).

It's not consistent, it's not involving, there isn't even much of a fantastic lore/story behind building your relic weapon to be your weapon. Especially now with ST and hunts out, you could just loot a piece of rock from Xande, trade it to some schmuck for a weapon, kill some giant green penguins for hunting logs, exchange those for sands and toss it into a furnace for the same Ilvl and possibly already-optimized stats.

[YanDere]

Well, if it's just about what do you like, you can skip it.
You can't ask for a fix on something you don't like, I like it and I want it exactly as it is. It's a pain, yes, it's long, ok, but it's exactly as it should be. I'd accept it even if it was a 0.0001% chance, and I do accept it being it 3% so why should they "fix" it?
"To fix" means to adjust something which is basically wrong, not something you don't like. Even if 99% of the community hates it (and this is not the case), it's good as it is: you do something long and boring, to get a good weapon. You want a reward for what you do? Get lost and farm your damn second coil, greedy man. If you want an atma, you'll have to farm FATEs, and that's it.

[Axlle10]

Well, if it's just about what do you like, you can skip it.
You can't ask for a fix on something you don't like, I like it and I want it exactly as it is. It's a pain, yes, it's long, ok, but it's exactly as it should be. I'd accept it even if it was a 0.0001% chance, and I do accept it being it 3% so why should they"fix" it?
"To fix" means to adjust something which is basically wrong, not something you don't like. Even if 99% of the community hates it (and this is not the case), it's good as it is: you do something long and boring, to get a good weapon. You want a reward for what you do? Get lost and farm your damn second coil, greedy man. If you want an atma, you'll have to farm FATEs, and that's it.

It was very short for quite a few, so argument invalid

So something that you claim is perfect yet lots of others claim is broken means that its not broken, just because you said so. Ok. lol Again, your argument is invalid.

If 99% of the community did not like something, any game company would fix it. ever heard of Customer support?

You do something long and boring for a SKIN on a weapon. Nothing happens to the weapon to make it good. That part comes later.

I will indeed farm my coil when I can with my FC instead of all these PF scrubs ive been finding. Its not that important to me as is dealing with this issue that plagues a great game.

I did farm atmas for my weapon. Im on the Novus quest right now. I dont plan on doing another because it was stupidly long for such a ridiculous "reward".

So ms deal with it. i say to you:



people always have different points of views than yourself. Just because they do, doesnt mean you should ignore 100% of what they say.