atma drop rates

[RiceisNice]

This is a major concern of mine. The implementation feels very F2P-esque. I want to say that at some point SE is going to have to stop screwing around with relic, given that with each stage it becomes, increasingly, the most difficult weapon option to acquire. I don't have a lot of faith in SE right now when it comes to content balance though.

Even by F2P standards, this sort of grind blows some of the korean MMO's grind fest out of the water. And it's made even worse like I mentioned that the end-reward hasn't been BiS since release, let alone even be 2nd BiS without contention (esp when other options are easier to obtain like I mentioned).

At least with Alexendrites and the books, you have a sense of progress, if even little per day. Atma can feel like an exercise in futility when you spend hours on it with nothing to show for it.

[EricCartmenez]

YanDere, that logic is completely wrong. You don't get a 'buff' from running more fates. It works like this: 1 fate - 3% change. 3 fates - 3% chance. Why? Because each fate is the same and you don't carry over the pass/fail ratio from one fate to the other. You can do 1,000 fates, you still have exactly the same % chance for a drop at the start of each of those thousand fates. Your logic would mean that I have a better chance of winning the lottery playing the same number each time. If I play 1-10-100-5-30 my whole life and live to be 70, buying a ticket every week of my life as an adult (18 and up), I've purchased 53*52 tickets or 2756 tickets. So when I am 70, I have a better chance of winning than the person who just bought his/her first ticket ever? No. The chances of winning reset every time you play. They don't become additive.


You run a fate - drop rate is X%. Next fate, drop rate is still X%, it doesn't change. A RNG is just that. It randomly generates a number and either an atma is dropped or it is not. The % is an average of the number of times the generator produces a drop. That factor doesn't change, no matter your number of fate.

Now, what can change is this: number of people involved in the fate. If a single atma stone is dropped for a given number of people, your chance for success is lowered by a larger party of persons involved in the fate. That's because you now have the chance that a fate is dropped coupled with the chance that you among the other people will get one. That's why fate parties are a dumb idea. Run fates, get your atma, move on. That's what I did. Took longest to get the Lion the second time. First time, it was in Drybone. Going to start my 3rd soon.

Got my second Atma weapon over the weekend and still had plenty of time to level up two characters in the Destiny Beta, take part in hunts, and spirit bond with two full sets of clothing.

White Mage


Bard

[Ringabell]

YanDere, that logic is completely wrong. You don't get a 'buff' from running more fates. It works like this: 1 fate - 3% change. 3 fates - 3% chance. Why? Because each fate is the same and you don't carry over the pass/fail ratio from one fate to the other. You can do 1,000 fates, you still have exactly the same % chance for a drop at the start of each of those thousand fates. Your logic would mean that I have a better chance of winning the lottery playing the same number each time. If I play 1-10-100-5-30 my whole life and live to be 70, buying a ticket every week of my life as an adult (18 and up), I've purchased 53*52 tickets or 2756 tickets. So when I am 70, I have a better chance of winning than the person who just bought his/her first ticket ever? No. The chances of winning reset every time you play. They don't become additive.


You run a fate - drop rate is X%. Next fate, drop rate is still X%, it doesn't change. A RNG is just that. It randomly generates a number and either an atma is dropped or it is not. The % is an average of the number of times the generator produces a drop. That factor doesn't change, no matter your number of fate.

Now, what can change is this: number of people involved in the fate. If a single atma stone is dropped for a given number of people, your chance for success is lowered by a larger party of persons involved in the fate. That's because you now have the chance that a fate is dropped coupled with the chance that you among the other people will get one. That's why fate parties are a dumb idea. Run fates, get your atma, move on. That's what I did. Took longest to get the Lion the second time. First time, it was in Drybone. Going to start my 3rd soon.

Got my second Atma weapon over the weekend and still had plenty of time to level up two characters in the Destiny Beta, take part in hunts, and spirit bond with two full sets of clothing.

IRT Blue:

Yes and no. The chance to get an Atma for EACH FATE would be 3%, but your OVERALL chance to get an Atma would increase.

This simple analogy should help you see clearly.

I flip a coin. There's a 50% chance I'll get heads right? Right.

I flip it again. There's ANOTHER 50% chance I'll get heads right? Right.

But my overall chance of getting at least one heads has increased.

If I flip that coin 1,000 times, is there still only a 50% chance I'll get ONE heads? Nope. At that point the odds are 99.99999% I'll get at least one.

IRT Red

False. I've seen multiple instances of more than one person in a party getting an Atma on the same FATE.

[EricCartmenez]

We're saying the same thing differently, Ringabell. Each fate has the same drop rate, and that does not change. Each has a an independent outcome that has an X% rate of drop - just like your coin example. It becomes less likely that you will fail at achieving heads the more often you flip the coin. The same goes for each atma drop. It is less likely that you will fail the more you do. But that doesn't change the fact that each drop is independent of the last and does not affect the next or last.

BTW, I fell into the trap of believing that there was only one drop per fate as posted by someone else before. That was dumb.

[Axlle10]

you'll get plenty of crowded FATEs at any time of the day and you'll be able to farm more efficiently.

The drop rate per FATE isn't that low for an RPG, if you remember FXII,

you'd get a weapon in a day just FATEing casually.

I like spending my time like that.
One thing I've never understood is why people play for the rewards. No one in this game is enjoying a grind or a dungeon, everyone just wants to get to the loot and go in another raid to get other loot: everyone should know that this is a game, and the purpose of a game is spending some time having fun and chilling out. If you're not having fun grinding atmas, don't grind them,

SE can't make something easier just because people can't get the loot.

No offense huh, it's just a fact.

alright, where do i begin. For one, im assuming you dont know what your talking about with the first statement bolded, i have seen plenty of times farming in that area where you are waiting 10+ minutes for 1 single fate to spawn in the lower half of the map and running to the upper half can take a 2-3 minutes to do for some fates. So that map is far from the most efficient.

The base drop rate is not the problem, its the sole fact that they block content that is actually better for you to do and helps the game economy and social environments, and they block you out for such a stupid reason as a "NEW SKIN".

I actually spent more time getting my atma than i did my animus. So please enlighten everyone as to why some should get their atma in one day (Which i had 3 FC members do) while others should go 1k+ Fates for one single stone? Its not about the "I want the weapon now!" its about the equallity in if i just do a bit more i have a better chance of getting it.

What they NEED to implement is a progress based system, just as all the other quest lines are. Do 50 fates for an increased 5%, 100 for 10% etc. and at most cap it at a decent % where its not one and done. Or implement it where its 25+ Fates for one atma. That helps out everyone in the situation while still leaving a grind for people like you.

And SE will indeed make it easier, just as they have done with all other content. Unfortunately they are taking their sweet time nerfing a system that was very ill-prepared.

[YanDere]

The quote is too messy.
You got the single phrases and cut them out of their context.
The grind is something very long and, for most players, boring. The grind is, by definition, something you don't like doing, that leads to a very good reward.
You can't ask for equality in an RNG-based grind, it's stupid.
Accept it, or don't do it, because atma grinding is not "for the skin", but for the animus: it's like saying that Hydra and Chimera are useless because I spent more time doing Ifrit-Garuda-Titan than them. You don't do animus by completing 9 books, you do it by completing A relic reborn, then grinding 12 atmas, then completing 9 books. You didn't spend more time grinding atmas than doing animus, because you were doing animus all along.

I don't see how "rolling 3 dices at the same time" is any different from "rolling 3 dices after each other", considering you only need one of them to hit that 3%

I explained this, twice, with examples.
But I know you won't bother scrolling up so here we go again:
If you roll 3 dices one every 10 minutes, you can get one reward at 10min, 1 at 20 min, 1 at 30 min, or none; if you roll 3 dices together after 10 minutes, you can get one at 10 minutes, or none.
The number of FATEs changes the overall drop rate, the time it takes to you to do them changes the time it takes to actually drop.
If doing 1 FATE every 10 minutes you drop after 15 FATEs, it takes 150 minutes. If you're doing 3 every 10 minutes, you drop after 50 minutes. It's like rolling a dice to get 6 (but not getting it) then waiting 10 minutes, or rolling continuously until you get that 6, it takes way less to go faster.

[RiceisNice]

...
.

That doesn't make sense in regards to "increasing overall droprate." It doesn't increase the droprate is what I'm getting at, and possibly what other people are getting at. You're still throwing out three dices at the end, and hoping for if one to hit the mark.

That's under the assumption that you're going to get a drop after 15 FATEs, which is not the case because it's based off a static percentage that doesn't change. It doesn't change based on how many FATEs you do, it doesn't change based on how much you tag in a given time. 3% the first time then its 3% the fifth time, and 3% the hundredth time if it comes to that.

The way I'd word it, its not "You increase your chances of getting heads if you toss a coin twice.", but "Your chances of getting heads on the second toss is still the same if you toss a coin twice". It's a poor analogy because its 50/50, but that's the point I'm getting at.

[Jx00x]

I've been FATE grinding for the past two weeks in Outer LaNoscea attempting to get my final Atma, and according to the achievement log, I have done 90 FATEs as of three days ago (have not done a FATE outside of Outer LaNoscea since I started), so I can say I have done at least 180 FATEs (90 in three days plus the other 8-days-ish that I wasnt keeping track during, and doing just as many FATEs those previous days), there really needs to be some sort of change to this system, it's getting to the point that getting this weapon is starting to make this game a lot less fun

[YanDere]

"You increase your chances of getting heads if you toss a coin twice."

Well the fact is, you actually do increase your chances.
Dropping 1 atma from 1 FATE is more unlikely than dropping 1 atma from 2 FATEs. Each roll has 3% chance but the more FATEs you do, the more chances you'll have of dropping that ONE atma you need from MULTIPLE FATEs.
So that being said, doing more FATEs in less time increases the odds of dropping, and this is a fact.
Avoid comments like "explain me how a 3% drop can change if it's always 3%", that would be stupid, just read above in the 9999999 comments I made explaining it in different ways.

[Ringabell]

Well the fact is, you actually do increase your chances.
Dropping 1 atma from 1 FATE is more unlikely than dropping 1 atma from 2 FATEs. Each roll has 3% chance but the more FATEs you do, the more chances you'll have of dropping that ONE atma you need from MULTIPLE FATEs.
So that being said, doing more FATEs in less time increases the odds of dropping, and this is a fact.Avoid comments like "explain me how a 3% drop can change if it's always 3%", that would be stupid, just read above in the 9999999 comments I made explaining it in different ways.

Yep, it sure is.

If one person does 1 FATE per day and another person does 30 FATEs per day, the person doing 30 per day is probably going to get all 12 much quicker.

I say probably because the very nature of RNG means that it's POSSIBLE (though highly unlikely) that the person who does 1 FATE per day gets his 12 Atma in 12 days, and it's POSSIBLE (though highly unlikely) that the person doing 30 FATEs per day get's his 12 Atma in a year.

"Possible" simply means that there is more than a 0% chance.

Go in PF and start an Atma group for whatever area you're in so that you can down FATEs as fast as possible and get more done in less time. If you go into an area and see a lot of people are already doing FATEs but they haven't joined your party, send out a /shout letting them know you have a PF up.

If you don't you may find yourself soloing a FATE and taking 8+ minutes to finish something that would've taken 2 minutes with a full party.