The Monk Temple Reborn

[Lewena]

Basically, are you saying that if ToD is still up, you are prioritizing Boot over reapplying ToD ????

If not, can you be more specific and less erudite so that I, and seemingly Sleigh, can understand what you want us to understand ?

Btw, what is it with typinh "then" instead of "than" ? (not directed towards you kukurumei but I am seeing it a lot on this forum).

[Mahri]

So on my alt character, I picked monk up. Super, super noob question, I know, but is it just me, or is it massively more complicated than dragoon, which I've been leveling on my main character here?

Really loving the overall aesthetic to it (less kung-fu mystic, more swashbuckling brawler) but I try putting the rotations to use on big FATEs or dungeon bosses and get so very tangled up. Level 31 on it now.

Reading over the OP, there's a lot to digest, and the theory all makes great sense, but what I'm essentially after is less in-depth endgame-based strategizing, and more along the lines of "the stupid idiot's guide to not being terrible at this".

[NoctisUmbra]

So on my alt character, I picked monk up. Super, super noob question, I know, but is it just me, or is it massively more complicated than dragoon, which I've been leveling on my main character here?

Really loving the overall aesthetic to it (less kung-fu mystic, more swashbuckling brawler) but I try putting the rotations to use on big FATEs or dungeon bosses and get so very tangled up. Level 31 on it now.

Reading over the OP, there's a lot to digest, and the theory all makes great sense, but what I'm essentially after is less in-depth endgame-based strategizing, and more along the lines of "the stupid idiot's guide to not being terrible at this".

I wouldn't say massively. Well, I suppose DRG is easier to get one's head around, what with only 2 positional skills. That said, MNK is mainly more difficult to pick up in the beginning. The pace with greased lightning can get rather quick, and there's a lot of muscle memory to be developed when it comes to weaving between flank and rear or the right skills.

Having played MNK and DRG the most, I have personally found MNK to be tougher to pick up and easier to master, whereas DRG is easier to pick up, but tougher to master in terms of their standard rotations. However, with MNK you get the additional stress of having to find ways to keep GL3 up through rather unforgiving mechanics or face a massive dps loss, so in general it is considered tougher to play at endgame. That balances out with how much higher the DPS ceiling is on MNK though compared to DRG.

[Empressia]

the drop of GL3 stack is inevitable due to RNG mechanics, DRG rotation is very unforgiving if u missed ur flank and rear combo opener while MNK received small dps dips, anyway MNK issue is to maintain ur GL3 stacks uptime, while DRG issue is to use all ur off GCDs skills to the most effective way

[NoctisUmbra]

the drop of GL3 stack is inevitable due to RNG mechanics, DRG rotation is very unforgiving if u missed ur flank and rear combo opener while MNK received small dps dips, anyway MNK issue is to maintain ur GL3 stacks uptime, while DRG issue is to use all ur off GCDs skills to the most effective way

While it's true there are many cases where it's inevitable, and for this reason some fights are just not fit for MNK to perform well in, but it's important for MNK players to look for and recognize opportunities for tricks that will allow them to maintain GL3.

MNK's positionals suffer a large DPS loss when out of position save for like 1 of them... and all of it's skills are positional for single-target. A DRG has only 2 positional skills out of their 8 main skills for single-target. If they miss-position HT they simply hit it again and carry on. If they miss Impulse Drive, they try again and carry on. There's definitely a DPS loss suffered, but I wouldn't say it's any more/less unforgiving than MNK.

[Mahri]

Thanks for the feedback! In considering this further, the comment about muscle memory playing a part seems on-the-dot, and in discussion with some more experienced MNKs in my FC on the same subject, it came to light that thinking in terms of a "rotation" might have been part of my problem. A rotation implies a nice easy pattern, but here there's just so much timing-based stuff to juggle around while also contending with fight mechanics that the best results are always going to come from adaptability rather than fixed choreographed precision. This ain't no dance routine.

Incidentally: Is there a popular way to set up one's hotbars for this job?

[NoctisUmbra]

Thanks for the feedback! In considering this further, the comment about muscle memory playing a part seems on-the-dot, and in discussion with some more experienced MNKs in my FC on the same subject, it came to light that thinking in terms of a "rotation" might have been part of my problem. A rotation implies a nice easy pattern, but here there's just so much timing-based stuff to juggle around while also contending with fight mechanics that the best results are always going to come from adaptability rather than fixed choreographed precision. This ain't no dance routine.

Incidentally: Is there a popular way to set up one's hotbars for this job?

I use cross-hotbar as I'm gamepad, so I probably can't help you there.

[Empressia]

snip

Missing 1 Impulse Drive means losing 1 Full Thrust because u need to re apply Heavy Thrust and screwing up ur jumps rotation (that with 508 sks), and as everyone already knew screwing jump rotations means jumping to ur death which imma sure is a MASSIVE DPS DROP compared to gl3 stack downtime.

Naw say if the target rotates as all bosses do, with DRG and MNK on the group trying to apply their rear rotations to the boss' ass with the boss turns and give em flank spots:

1. DRG missed ID and in the lucky case only missed a 1.6k Full Thrust ( i'm using crit dmg as a comparison to bootshine), not even counting 10% dmg buff from disembowel downtime loss (more if u have brd)
2. MNK bootshine may or may not crit,instead of true strikes, they do twin snakes refreshing 10% dmg buff, and snap punch, and their GL3 stacks persist (no rotation interrupted only small dps dips)

[NoctisUmbra]

Missing 1 Impulse Drive means losing 1 Full Thrust because u need to re apply Heavy Thrust and screwing up ur jumps rotation (that with 508 sks), and as everyone already knew screwing jump rotations means jumping to ur death which imma sure is a MASSIVE DPS DROP compared to gl3 stack downtime.

Naw say if the target rotates as all bosses do, with DRG and MNK on the group trying to apply their rear rotations to the boss' ass with the boss turns and give em flank spots:

1. DRG missed ID and in the lucky case only missed a 1.6k Full Thrust ( i'm using crit dmg as a comparison to bootshine), not even counting 10% dmg buff from disembowel downtime loss (more if u have brd)
2. MNK bootshine may or may not crit,instead of true strikes, they do twin snakes refreshing 10% dmg buff, and snap punch, and their GL3 stacks persist (no rotation interrupted only small dps dips)

You just compared a very specific situation with arguably the greatest ill effect on DRG dps with the specific situation with arguably the least effect on MNK DPS, regarding missing positionals. Just because you wanted to put them in the same position for comparison sake, doesn't mean it held any actual weight in a real scenario. The MNK and DRG can, and likely are, in different positions (flank vs rear) when the boss is turned for whatever reason. This can lead to someone being caught in front of the boss briefly, or a situation more akin to the one you described.

Furthermore, with only 2 skills out of the 8 in your standard rotation being position dependent, and all of the skills on MNK being position dependent, one suffers basically no ill effect due to an unexpected boss turn 6/8 times, and always knows when the 2/8 times they need to take care is approaching. Any time an unexpected boss turn occurs that the MNK isn't ready for is a DPS loss, especially with their 2s or less GCD on average cutting down the amount of time they have to adjust position without delaying a GCD.

Like I said, I play them both at a competitive level. It's rather funny to me when DRG mains try to suggest they have as much risk associated with their job's DPS at endgame as MNK. No. DRG DPS levels are far more consistent across content and varying mechanics. MNK DPS is greatly effected by how "dummy-esque" the fight is. That's why depending on the fight, MNKs can either in general vastly outperform DRGs, or perform worse than them despite their much higher potential.

[Loganlazaro]

Hi everyone, I dunno if you guys are sick to death about discussing optimal PB opener, but I've started using an alternative one, it goes as follows:

PB>demolish>snap>dragon kick>snap>twin>B4B>Boot>IR>true>megapot STR>ToD>steel peak>demolish>HF ...flank>rearetc

The timing on this opener allows for the the first demolish to fully tick and when re applied ToD and demolish are fully buffed with STR pot, IR and B4B. No risk of losing GL3 compared to DM>snap>snap>DK>twin and not delaying twins snakes with DM>snap>snap>DK>snap. Also since snap is used 4th, its lengthened the duration of GL3 enough to allow ToD.

Regarding the staggering of CDs, some will argue it is a dps loss, but over the duration of an encounter it depends on how long the fight goes and whether you'll get to use the extra IR/B4B.
Am I wrong in anyway? If so please provide reasons I'm always looking to improve.