Translations (JP to English)

[Ava]

Expecting design to be perfect right out of the door is too much asked. Quality control means getting rid of bugs. At the end of the day, as long as the design is only slightly off it's going right as planned. We are here to help them take care of the details, but they themselves need to get the big picture right. No developer is perfect, but perfection can be attained with good use of external assistance.

There will be design issues regardless, but instead of thinking too much about the details by themselves they are making us do the work for them. It is significantly more efficient that way.

You're right, but it could be argued that if this is their intention (to deliver us an idea and have us work out the kinks), then why the F dont we have a separate test server? This is why MMOs have test servers, so the community can help test the freshest content out and provide live feedback straight to the dev's emails.

FFXI got one, here's to hoping they are working on one for FFXIV. =|

[Kailok]

You're right, but it could be argued that if this is their intention (to deliver us an idea and have us work out the kinks), then why the F dont we have a separate test server? This is why MMOs have test servers, so the community can help test the freshest content out and provide live feedback straight to the dev's emails.

FFXI got one, here's to hoping they are working on one for FFXIV. =|

Yes, I hope they end up making one as well. However, I hope they make it so that characters on that server only are free to make, but you can only have one (to prevent an overload of new characters). I mean, if I have to pay the extra for a character on the test server, I will. It'd be nice to see what's in the making for the real servers.

[Betelgeuzah]

You're right, but it could be argued that if this is their intention (to deliver us an idea and have us work out the kinks), then why the F dont we have a separate test server? This is why MMOs have test servers, so the community can help test the freshest content out and provide live feedback straight to the dev's emails.

FFXI got one, here's to hoping they are working on one for FFXIV. =|

The devs/reps already commented on this (don't remember whether we got a translation for it though) but in a nutshell this game's internal build has not and will not be in a shape to be tested for some time to come. For a test server to work the game has to be actually functional, and this game has not been so.

Imagine this: you have a non-existant hate system that is being changed from the very core. It is all over the place. How do you go about testing it? How can you give proper feedback when it doesn't function even on the basic level?

Now imagine the same, except this time every stat algorithm is the same way.

As far as AA goes, how do you test the game when the AA is out of sync with the server? What if there is no actual AA mechanic, you are still using stamina bar, but the server already functions as if AA was implemented? There are so many variables to this, and they would all have to work across the globe at all stages in development; otherwise you couldn't fight anything.

Lastly, imagine all of this together. You can't test them separately because they belong together. They only make sense together. AA, new stats, damage algorithms, enmity, materia system, dungeons, server architechture, item renovations, graphical adjustments. It's all just a big mess and most importantly there are only 3 stages to their development:

1) it doesn't function, untestable.
2) it functions properly, but the design is slightly off. Implement to live servers.
3) collect feedback, work out the design issues. Flesh the system out.

So at the end of the day, at this point it doesn't matter whether there is a single test server or whether every current server acts as one. When all this content becomes functional, it is implemented to be tested externally (the earliest point at which it even can be tested).

This isn't just a new raid instance, or an event, or an additional gameplay feature on top of the basic features (those are the things that test servers are used for- testing additional layers on top of the foundation).

Once we get to the point when features like AH, battle regimens, UI additions and content become the dev team's primary focus (in other words, additional layers on top of the existing foundation), a test server can be created as well.

It just seems to me that the idea of having a built up hate is a very bad idea, as stated by the concerned posters. My vision is fighting an NM, tank is owning/ tanking and holding like a pro and spamming all his voke abilities and what not (come on this is an FF game, we're all used to spamming voke and such that wont change) and having this insane hate count that maybe the mob suddenly 1shots him or silences the casters or some other unfortunate circumstance that the tank dies, lost 7 minutes of hate while everyone else still has all that hate. And he also has to spend 3 minutes doing nothing while weakened plus the time delay of being ressed, this could lead to 10-12 minutes of hate to catch up, which just sounds absolutely ridiculous lol it makes absolute no sense.

It's pretty simple: you just lost the fight. If it's good game design the bosses won't be so cheap. In XI it was a-okay because stalling actually worked. Here you die, you suck, you lose.

[viion]

It's pretty simple: you just lost the fight. If it's good game design the bosses won't be so cheap. In XI it was a-okay because stalling actually worked. Here you die, you suck, you lose.

Most retarded logic ever.

What if you're tanking and all the healers just suddenly stop healing or get silenced and you too are silenced. I guess because silence prevents cure that means you suck, right?

What if there is an Odin who can 1shotsyou, guess that means you suck because of a legendary skill.

[Betelgeuzah]

Most retarded logic ever.

What if you're tanking and all the healers just suddenly stop healing or get silenced and you too are silenced. I guess because silence prevents cure that means you suck, right?

What if there is an Odin who can 1shotsyou, guess that means you suck because of a legendary skill.

So basically the developers can't control the content they create, and balance it according to the rules of their MMORPG?

It can't get any simpler than this: A) the developers are incompetent and create encounters in which you can get killed off by something you can't predict, while not giving you any chance to recover. Or B) the developers create cues for the player to be able to prevent getting silenced or killed at which point it comes down to skill, not luck. If you get silenced in such case, yes, you suck.

You act as if this game is some unholy beast the developers can't fully control. But I won't call that logic retarded; everyone can make their own assumptions.

[Ava]

The devs/reps already commented on this (don't remember whether we got a translation for it though) but in a nutshell this game's internal build has not and will not be in a shape to be tested for some time to come. For a test server to work the game has to be actually functional, and this game has not been so.

Imagine this: you have a non-existant hate system that is being changed from the very core. It is all over the place. How do you go about testing it? How can you give proper feedback when it doesn't function even on the basic level?

Now imagine the same, except this time every stat algorithm is the same way.

As far as AA goes, how do you test the game when the AA is out of sync with the server? What if there is no actual AA mechanic, you are still using stamina bar, but the server already functions as if AA was implemented? There are so many variables to this, and they would all have to work across the globe at all stages in development; otherwise you couldn't fight anything.

Lastly, imagine all of this together. You can't test them separately because they belong together. They only make sense together. AA, new stats, damage algorithms, enmity, materia system, dungeons, server architechture, item renovations, graphical adjustments. It's all just a big mess and most importantly there are only 3 stages to their development:

1) it doesn't function, untestable.
2) it functions properly, but the design is slightly off. Implement to live servers.
3) collect feedback, work out the design issues. Flesh the system out.

So at the end of the day, at this point it doesn't matter whether there is a single test server or whether every current server acts as one. When all this content becomes functional, it is implemented to be tested externally (the earliest point at which it even can be tested).

This isn't just a new raid instance, or an event, or an additional gameplay feature on top of the basic features (those are the things that test servers are used for- testing additional layers on top of the foundation).

Once we get to the point when features like AH, battle regimens, UI additions and content become the dev team's primary focus (in other words, additional layers on top of the existing foundation), a test server can be created as well.



It's pretty simple: you just lost the fight. If it's good game design the bosses won't be so cheap. In XI it was a-okay because stalling actually worked. Here you die, you suck, you lose.

I think you're confused. What you explained would not be a public test server, that kind of stuff is tested internally, for the exact reasons you stated. Public test servers are so the community can test the finished ideas/products as soon as they are functional. Instead of pushing enmity changes into a live environment, a test server would ensure that it is tested, feedback is collected, then fine tune adjustments can be made before it goes live for the world to see. As it stands right now, they push it live for the world to see, then admit their mistake when people don't like it, and backpedal. This is why people are so frustrated with this game right now.

There needs to be a test environment. Dungeons should not go live before community testing, game changing mechanics should not go live before community testing. They are leaving us in the dark and we have no way of giving Square any kind of constructive feedback until the walls are already painted.

It's like if you're making a dinner for a group of people but you're inexperienced (I think SE has oddly proved their lack of experience, especially with Yoshi-P) with cooking, you put something together and taste it. But unless you have a proven good taste (Square doesn't), you'll probably want a second outside opinion before sending your dinner out to a bunch of people. It sure would suck to make that dinner and find out the meat wasn't done well enough for half the people or something, wouldn't it?

[Betelgeuzah]

I think you're confused. What you explained would not be a public test server, that kind of stuff is tested internally, for the exact reasons you stated. Public test servers are so the community can test the finished ideas/products as soon as they are functional. Instead of pushing enmity changes into a live environment, a test server would ensure that it is tested, feedback is collected, then fine tune adjustments can be made before it goes live for the world to see. As it stands right now, they push it live for the world to see, then admit their mistake when people don't like it, and backpedal. This is why people are so frustrated with this game right now.

Wrong. They push it out as soon as it is functional because the game is better off that way. Not everyone is going to like the changes, and testing won't change that fact.

There's a reason why beta testing starts so late in a game development's lifespan (read: when the features are functional).

There needs to be a test environment. Dungeons should not go live before community testing, game changing mechanics should not go live before community testing. They are leaving us in the dark and we have no way of giving Square any kind of constructive feedback until the walls are already painted.

You just said they are implemented when deemed functional. There is absolutely no point in testing them before that, aside from bugs. You are contradicting yourself.

They release them as soon as they can be tested. The walls are not painted.

It's like if you're making a dinner for a group of people but you're inexperienced (I think SE has oddly proved their lack of experience, especially with Yoshi-P) with cooking, you put something together and taste it. But unless you have a proven good taste (Square doesn't), you'll probably want a second outside opinion before sending your dinner out to a bunch of people. It sure would suck to make that dinner and find out the meat wasn't done well enough for half the people or something, wouldn't it?

Analogues... great. Just great.

The dinner isn't ready when they send it out for second opinion. It's not just a bunch of ingredients either. It's at the point where you can actually taste the flavour, but it's still slightly raw.

This is why analogues are crap. You don't compare a meal to an MMORPG without missing the obvious.

And you know who is the main audience and who are the guinea pigs testing? The 30k or so players have no better purpose, might as well use them. The food needs to be ready for the real audience. You are not a part of it. You are a paid beta tester playing the game voluntarily, regardless of what you think, for all intents and purposes.