I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[Skivvy]

I think one of big issues that this game has is the Player's expectation that everyone else should play on the same level as them. It always amuses me that once a small fraction of the community gets the harder content on farm-status (i.e Titan Ex, Turn 5+, etc), you'll start seeing all the comments about how this content is damn easy! And how can you not dodge <whatever> flawlessly!. This has a tendency to breed impatience, and annoyance whenever you're thrown into a dungeon with someone who isn't up to your snuff.

We all come with our own skill levels, and there are a ton of possible reasons. Perhaps they are having an off day, maybe this is someone's kid who is just starting with his first MMO and really has no idea how the job works, maybe they don't research everything out the ass (as people seem to expect) in order to play a simple online game, maybe they really are just a troll, who knows! I like to give people the benefit of the doubt as it's far too easy to upset yourself assuming the worst.

And regarding why Parsers would not be good - people in this game can be absolutely vicious when they simply think you're not holding your weight. Imagine if they have actual data to back this up? If you want to guarantee you'll have an awesome group every time you do anything, then make a very select LS, make friends who have skill. Don't expect the DF masses to have the skill you're looking for and then take it out on them when they don't.

[givemeraptors]

Are you honestly expecting someone to keep track of every single skill every dps in your party is using? That is absolutely ridiculous to expect of people who are busy pulling their own weight and doing their own job right in a fight, especially when such fights can last over 10 minutes.

For debuffs on the enemy you will see them naturally by keeping track of your own debuffs. It's all visual, it takes less than a second to note the little icons for everyone else. And sometimes you should be following them naturally anyway, SCH/SMN should be watching for Antibody, and BRDs should note when a DRG is using Disembowel (if not they should ask them to work it into their rotation).

You can only see 5 buffs/debuffs total on the party list. Protect, Stoneskin and Galvanize count and has priority over individual buffs....

...If you can track all that, it still doesn't mean they have enough DPS to beat the fight. And really if you can track 4 other people's buffs, debuffs, timings and all that good stuffs, they should put you into a research facility.

Most DPS won't have SS up except at the beginning of the fight. Even if all three of those were up constantly you'd still be able to see two other buffs. It's how I know a tank is rotating through their defensive buffs when I play SCH and not just leaving me to brute force heal through everything. And if anyone is going to have all those buffs up nigh-permanently throughout the fight it's the tank.

It doesn't require you to watch the party list like a hawk, but it is a good idea for DPS to glance over occasionally. BRDs and SMNs should already be doing this since they have a lot of support abilities. Then you just note whether you frequently see people buffed or not. I honestly just thought of that as normal gameplay. I "double-check" the party list no matter what role I'm playing because it just...makes sense.

Between that and the DPS that can't dodge you should be able to pinpoint the weak points in your party. If you're playing in a static or with an FC member you do 4-man content with it should be even more apparent.

*Also for MNK I meant switching between Fists of Fire/Earth/Wind not GL stacks. GL stacks don't really mean anything, haha. I met a MNK who would switch to Fists of Earth for big unavoidable AoEs and I was like "omg duh, why didn't I think of that!?" Ever since then I glance at the MNK in my party during Geocrush/Hellfire etc. I don't hold it against them, but it kind of helps distinguish the cooler MNKs.

[Viridiana]

There is quite a difference between a healer who can't keep the tank alive and a DPS who takes two minutes longer to win a fight. One does not bring the party to the victory. The other does, but may take a little extra of your precious time.

Instances where taking extra time to kill things potentially leads to a wipe:

Haukke Manor (final boss adds)
Sunken Temple of Qarn (bees, wespes, verges)
Aurum Vale (final boss adds)
Wanderer's Palace (final boss stalkers)
Amdapor Keep (final boss pillars)
Copperbell Mines Hard (final part of rock-clearing phase, bombs on the bridge boss, final boss worm, potentially even the bomb on the spriggan boss)
Haukke Manor Hard (final boss adds)
Lost City of Amdapor (final boss doors)
Brayflox Longstop Hard (final boss bomb)
Hydra (Wyvern buffs)
Titan Hard (heart phase)
Thornmarch (have to kill X number of moogles)
Garuda Extreme (must be able to kill sisters or wipe)
Titan Extreme (heart phase, egis, super bombs)
Ifrit Extreme (nails, hard enrage)
Leviathan Extreme (fear add, hard enrage)
LotA (skellies, Atomos adds, bomb, KB adds)
Turn 1 (the longer the last half of Cad is alive, the worse)
Turn 2 (even enraging, healers don't have infinite MP)
Turn 4 (add buildup from hell, or a super-charged Dread)
Turn 5 (conflags, snakes, dreads, hard enrage)

. . .and I'm not even in SCoB to comment on those.

[Lemon8or]

Most DPS won't have SS up except at the beginning of the fight. Even if all three of those were up constantly you'd still be able to see two other buffs.

I edited some more skills that the buff icon have priorities over individual buffs. Even then MNK has Fist abilities and forms icon that can take up 2 slots, SMN has Aetherflow, BLM has AF/UI that tells almost nothing about their abilities to do damage.

4-man content

4-man content it doesn't matter who's doing what really. They're tuned so you can easily pass.

Also for MNK I meant switching between Fists of Fire/Earth/Wind not GL stacks. GL stacks don't really mean anything, haha.

If you really think GL do not mean "anything", I have bad news for you. If you think +9% damage dealt and +5% attack speed for each GL stack, up to 3 times, doesn't mean anything while being so amazed towards the stances switching, you don't know monk as much as you think you do. Sure 10% damage reduction during unavoidable damage is nice but it's nothing that you can't get healed back just from the ongoing heal to the whole party. Monk has average magic defense so those skills don't really hurt much. For example, I'd rather use Fist of Fire, stand around where Titan lands for Geocrush cause I know I won't die and keep my Greased Lightning 3 (+27% damage +15% attack speed) then risk going into Fist of Earth (-10% damage received) and risk either lose GL3 or do 5% less damage on my next attack.

. . .and I'm not even in SCoB to comment on those.

Let me fill in for you.
Turn 6: Not killing bulbs leads to moving the boss in undesirable places leading to either people getting eaten -> boss do more damage or they take too much damage from briar + vine = wipe.
Turn 7: Not killing adds fast enough makes it ranging from extremely difficult to deal with voice/shriek to wipe when prosector casts hysteria on the tank and he voice you or Melusine absorbs all the health the prosector has. Boss has 11 minutes enrage.
Turn 8: Boss has 11 minutes enrage. Tanking dreadnaughts for too long increase chances of tank getting 1-shot if solo-tank or you don't do enough damage on the boss.
Turn 9: Boss has 13 minutes enrage. Not killing golems before another set/boss do megaflare = instant-wipe. Not getting boss to 47% in phase 3 before third heavensfall = most likely wipe. Boss has a soft enrage mechanics called Bahamut's Favour.
Also, Thornmarch EX: If you don't kill all the moogles at a good rate, you can't damage the king = wipe.

[Cessna]

I'll also add that the dreadnaughts in turn 8 have a enrage as well. Flamethrower deals 11kish damage which is pretty much a oneshot in addition to all the damage getting thrown around from the dread.

Turn 6 in addition has bee's must kill them or bee will enrage and kill players one by one until it dies. 3rd phase has the slug/slime mechanic thats a dps check, basically you need to either Destroy raffleshia before 10 stacks of acid ooze builds up or do super slug and kill it before it aoes the entire party for 30k damage and then kill raffleshia before 10 stacks build up.

Turn 9 also has another dps check the ghosts, need to kill em before players gerot twist debuff reach a certain stack or they will die since they can't cure themselves of the status without running into the lights that are droped by the ghost.

[givemeraptors]

I edited some more skills that the buff icon have priorities over individual buffs. Even then MNK has Fist abilities and forms icon that can take up 2 slots, SMN has Aetherflow, BLM has AF/UI that tells almost nothing about their abilities to do damage.

4-man content it doesn't matter who's doing what really. They're tuned so you can easily pass.If you really think GL do not mean "anything", I have bad news for you. If you think +9% damage dealt and +5% attack speed for each GL stack, up to 3 times, doesn't mean anything while being so amazed towards the stances switching, you don't know monk as much as you think you do. Sure 10% damage reduction during unavoidable damage is nice but it's nothing that you can't get healed back just from the ongoing heal to the whole party. Monk has average magic defense so those skills don't really hurt much. For example, I'd rather use Fist of Fire, stand around where Titan lands for Geocrush cause I know I won't die and keep my Greased Lightning 3 (+27% damage +15% attack speed) then risk going into Fist of Earth (-10% damage received) and risk either lose GL3 or do 5% less damage on my next attack.

I dunno what to tell you, I see Raging Strikes, Thundercloud/Firestarter procs, Straight Shot procs, Heavy Thrust and other buffs in the party window when I look up there. Maybe I just have lucky timing? But it's something I do pretty regularly and I've coached people in dungeons based on what I see there e.g. telling a LNC to use Heavy Thrust for the 15% damage boost because he never had it up.

I mentioned 4-man content because it's far easier to tell when a DPS is lagging there. And if you do 4 man content with an FC mate who isn't great, it's probably that same member in your static not pulling their weight. Obviously you can ignore this if you only run 8-man raids with your FC or don't overlap dungeons with static members. The DPS checks are otherwise negligible in 4-man dungeons unless you're not overgeared.

To clarify, I meant they don't mean anything in telling you that someone is doing good DPS, since like you said it happens automatically as you punch/kick things. A MNK that more actively switches between fists (doesn't have a CD or reset your combos so why wouldn't you?) is showing that they go the extra mile and are most likely putting extra effort into the rest of their playstyle i.e. probably not slacking in the DPS department. Especially if you opt to get stomped by Geocrush to maintain GL; from a healer's perspective the people who don't group for heals really annoy me, but I give them a pass if they at least make an effort at mitigation (Manaward, FoE). Lastly, I do think MNKs are hardest to tell whether they're doing good DPS outside of simply seeing whether they are doing positionals correctly.

In summary, I generally have no problem spotting the weak links in my group. I don't need a parser to do so. So from my perspective I think it would be rather unnecessary and only exacerbate PF hostility.

[Tiggy]

In summary, I generally have no problem spotting the weak links in my group. I don't need a parser to do so. So from my perspective I think it would be rather unnecessary and only exacerbate PF hostility.

Would you like a cookie? Clearly it isn't that easy for everyone else to multitask as well as you. You don't need to dash everyone's opinions to the ground because you're able to do something they can't.

Everyone has different skills and abilities. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a change and try to understand why these features would be useful to them even if they aren't useful to you. You aren't the only one playing the game. A lot of people need to remember that more often.

This isn't necessarily just meant for you. There are a lot of people in this thread that need to try to walk in another man/woman's shoes for a mile.

[Warlyx]

lots of partys disbanded because dps are unable to kill DPS checks (the wall in Amdapor was an example, the nails on ifrit , the gaol on titan , plumes on garuda...and bubbles on levi , every other boss has dps checks Coil 1-9 is full of dps checks)

tanks and healers are more noticiable , if a tanks lose agro ...or tanks dies because healer wasnt healing....u see it....

DPS u can see that the boss is dying slow , but u cant see if its dps 1 or dp2 fault other than watching how they play .

[Almalexia]

And regarding why Parsers would not be good - people in this game can be absolutely vicious when they simply think you're not holding your weight. Imagine if they have actual data to back this up?

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly:

Are you warning us against actual data like it's some kind of boogeyman, or are you warning us against angry people with justifiable claims?

[givemeraptors]

Would you like a cookie? Clearly it isn't that easy for everyone else to multitask as well as you. You don't need to dash everyone's opinions to the ground because you're able to do something they can't.

Everyone has different skills and abilities. Try to put yourself in their shoes for a change and try to understand why these features would be useful to them even if they aren't useful to you. You aren't the only one playing the game. A lot of people need to remember that more often.

This isn't necessarily just meant for you. There are a lot of people in this thread that need to try to walk in another man/woman's shoes for a mile.

I'm not dashing anyone's opinions. I've barely stated anything about my personal opinion on parsers aside from that final statement (which isn't strongly worded at all). All I've been doing is elaborating that there are other ways to see how someone was performing.

I understand not everyone can multitask. But out of a group of 8 (especially in a progression oriented static) not a single person can be bothered to take note of these things? Healers are already looking at the party list constantly, does it really hurt your performance to glance at the buffs every once in a while as you click on people's names? The whole point is progression and improvement. Isn't everyone supposed to be learning, helping and observing each other anyway? If eight players are that concerned with meeting DPS checks and none can be bothered to look at the party list except to see who died, I think there are other things holding the group back.