I just wanted to point out a double standard...

[Ryans]

I understand that a fair amount of the community just kind of wants to loldps and do content for the story, but if you're going to make fights with DPS checks, then tools to know how much DPS you're actually doing seems really invaluable. I heard they where going to let us measure our DPS on target dummies - which is nice, but target dummies don't fight back. They don't put fire under your feet, they don't force you to target switch, or AOE. So really, this isn't a good compromise.

People need to use dummies a lot more than they currently do and having a built-in dps meter for them would be amazing. The fact that you think they aren't a good compromise means you have failed to see the value of them just like the countless others who have never practiced their rotations on them. It's not just practicing your maximum sustained dps rotation that you can do on a dummy. You can turn away from the target for X amount of seconds to find out what would be the best option of where to pick up your rotation again. Or you can see if applying dots in the 6 second window you have would do more damage than a pure damage combo. You can also practice when using buffs would be most beneficial for both your normal rotation and your aoe rotation.

On top of all that and the many other scenarios a little thought could generate, you build your muscle memory for actions which lowers the chances of mistakes and will allow you to spend less time thinking about what skill to use next and instead focus on what skill the boss is using next.

[Ryel]

still is no justification to monitor others, although I (I suck as a dps) know perfectly well when I do no damages and I slack of it. no need of parsers...any sensible person can see by themselves it doesnt require a parsers for it nor does it a monitoring and with that the lack of education that derives from it

Mei

Need? No it isn't "needed" per se, but an in-game score page (which is what i would advocate for not a 3rd party tool) like the one at the end of wolves den matches or like those that have been used in other MMO's with information like: Damage done per person, Healing out, Damage taken etc. would raise the quality of player skill across the board both for those who are learning encounters and those who believe they have mastered them.

in fact I'd wager you'd see a lot less "This encounter is too hard!" or "Duty Finder parties suck!" threads if the average player could more accurately read their performance.

In regards to this:

People need to use dummies a lot more than they currently do and having a built-in dps meter for them would be amazing. The fact that you think they aren't a good compromise means you have failed to see the value of them just like the countless others who have never practiced their rotations on them. It's not just practicing your maximum sustained dps rotation that you can do on a dummy. You can turn away from the target for X amount of seconds to find out what would be the best option of where to pick up your rotation again. Or you can see if applying dots in the 6 second window you have would do more damage than a pure damage combo. You can also practice when using buffs would be most beneficial for both your normal rotation and your aoe rotation.

On top of all that and the many other scenarios a little thought could generate, you build your muscle memory for actions which lowers the chances of mistakes and will allow you to spend less time thinking about what skill to use next and instead focus on what skill the boss is using next.

I actually agree with most of this and i do feel that better training dummies are a step in the right direction but in the end they only help with starting your training, being able to read and adapt via in-game scorecards for end-game encounters allows you to account for more that goes on in your party, no two parties are identical unless it's a static group and a training dummy doesn't prepare you for the variables that are other players and unique mob mechanics.

A training dummy also wouldn't give you the same sense of progression that coming back to an instance and doubling your DPS from your previous scorecard after getting better gear / better at your job could if you were able see these things in game.

I fear the focus on negativity and the fear of being harassed has blinded people to the advantages that friendly competition and score keeping can offer when used in a positive environment.

[Bluevann]

There is quite a difference between a healer who can't keep the tank alive and a DPS who takes two minutes longer to win a fight. One does not bring the party to the victory. The other does, but may take a little extra of your precious time.

Constructive criticism is valuable for every class and every role, but if you yell at a DPS because the fight is taking longer than what you wanted because the damage numbers are lower, that can very well be seen as harassment. The DPS is there, and is working to take the group to the win. Players whose only fault is poor ilvl equipment should not be put on the same level of those who neglect using certain skills altogether, or afking, or disregarding instructions.

[Ryel]

There is quite a difference between a healer who can't keep the tank alive and a DPS who takes two minutes longer to win a fight. One does not bring the party to the victory. The other does, but may take a little extra of your precious time.

Constructive criticism is valuable for every class and every role, but if you yell at a DPS because the fight is taking longer than what you wanted because the damage numbers are lower, that can very well be seen as harassment. The DPS is there, and is working to take the group to the win. Players whose only fault is poor ilvl equipment should not be put on the same level of those who neglect using certain skills altogether, or afking, or disregarding instructions.

I agree although in regards to ilvl i feel thats more of an issue of both inaccurate ilvl checks at times and the lack of more ilvl 90+ content.

When you toss an ilvl 60 DPS up against an ilvl 100+ DPS in an ilvl 60-ish dungeon i'd hardly call it fair for the either of them. the ilvl60 DPS becomes the scapegoat for any DPS check mechanics that fail and the ilvl 100+ DPS feels like they're carrying everything because well... they kinda are at that point.

[Sapphic]

[QUOTE=Poringing;2200951
Turn 2 ADS

Take a screenshot while targetting ADS when it dies/ x minutes into the fight. Open any image software (even Microsoft paint is enough for this exercise) and calculate pixels of enmity each DPS has. If BRD has made 11 pixels and MNK has made 18 pixels; you can in the end make the statement, the bard is doing 60% of the monk's DPS.
[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

BRDs have access to quelling strikes. Look it up what it does and why it would prove that totally wrong on so many levels to be laughable,

[Tiggy]

The problem here is you're specifying actual dps numbers.
DPS, you're not killing fast enough = no ban

It is certainly possible to tell when DPS is low, but it is tough to tell which DPS is the causes among 2-4 of them. Whereas with a tank or healer their faults are immediately apparent. The OPs point stands. It's is indeed a double standard.

[Sadana]

As mentioned earlier, saying any player sucks/using abusive language can lead to a GM report; saying that player X may need to work on learning their skills is okay (constructive criticism); using a parser to tell a dps that they aren't good enough can lead to a ban. It doesn't even matter if you said it in a nice way; that program is against ToS. Period.

Part of the problem is when you have an ilvl 70 dps and an ilvl 100 dps in the party. Using a parser to determine whose dps is too low really won't work here. The guy in DL is gonna be shat upon for no other reason (probably) than he is in the process of upgrading his gear.

Those who suggest we have parsers available to improve our dps output... you do realize that many of those who have weak dps and good gear haven't even taken the time to learn their skills? What makes you think they will understand a parser much less take the time to actually look at it?

[Felis]

That mimics boss mechanics such as moving out of AOE, target switching, AOEing adds, etc? Because a static dummy isn't going to suffice. Your DPS is going to vary a huge amount when you throw in raid mechanics.

It would show you how many dmg you did to work on your rotation, like every other inofficial parsers. Or exist already parsers that show how many AoE you dodged?
What you mean is working on the tactic and mechanic, where you don't need a parser for it, only knowledge and communication.

[Kletian]

Wrong.

BRDs have access to quelling strikes. Look it up what it does and why it would prove that totally wrong on so many levels to be laughable,

How does 20% less enmity for a couple seconds of every few minutes going to make a huge difference over a 4 minute fight. If your Bards and BLM used it, then give them a bonus pixel or two on the threat meter.

[therpgfanatic]

The developers should just have a report card appear during the last dungeon cinematic where we do the fanfare.

The report card should say how long it took the clear the dungeon, what items / gil gained, and list facts about individual characters such as their DPS, threat generation, healing, highest crit damage / heal, etc etc

Then parsers won't be needed as much and people can instead cite the report card when pointing out someone's flaws, instead of their third party parser.