Protesting Frontlines

[Menriq]

I mentioned it literally four posts up, and I think somewhere in another thread a few times.

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

[Kantei]

Gonna say it again, I've played FFXIV's Wolves den with official rules. And I've also tried it with an ilvl cap.

ilvl cap and no PvP gear is the superior of the two. I put 6 months into my PvP gear. Still rather front lines be fun, over me melting under geared players.

[Nalien]

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

Ah, OK. Yeah, everyone has been skipping over that point whenever I bring it up (when they're not just resorting to out right insults).

I guess there is a case for not having Morale because it'll make matters worse, but you can balance Morale out by giving people a Morale buff. You can't really do the same with AP, unless they rework the system so you earn AP in battle (that would actually be interesting, though might not work with face paced combat).

Personally, I'd rather SE focus on not making it a level playing field for everyone, but instead making it a balanced one. Mix new PvPers with old ones and let there actually be a difference; every team has a balanced amount of people who are completely new, and people who have high Morale and high AP. If your teams new players get owned by your enemies high Morale players, it's either because they strayed off like a fool, or your teams high Morale players were derping.

ilvl cap and no PvP gear is the superior of the two. I put 6 months into my PvP gear. Still rather front lines be fun, over me melting under geared players.

And if the under geared players were given a buff that gives them a Morale boost? Then you'd have PvE players with, lets say, an equivalent to i65 Morale. PvP players in i70. PvP players in i90/100 capped down to i80. Would the difference in Morale there be enough to allow you to crush the under geared still?

And again, take into consideration the spread of players in a 24v24v24 match. You might be able to crush under geared players, but the PvPers on your opponents side can do the same to yours. I'll admit, that's something that can very quickly turn sour for new players, but it's still something to consider that nobody seems to be. Everyone is looking at Frontlines in terms of Wolves' Den mechanics.

[Menriq]

Gonna say it again, I've played FFXIV's Wolves den with official rules. And I've also tried it with an ilvl cap.

ilvl cap and no PvP gear is the superior of the two. I put 6 months into my PvP gear. Still rather front lines be fun, over me melting under geared players.

Even if everyone is naked, how are you handling the discrepancy in AP points? Are you forcing them to reset all their points? I guess what I'm asking is if, if you have one group who is all r40, and one group is all r1, and all other variables being equal, you still have an advantage on one side.

[Kantei]

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

Roughly 1/5th of my matches fought were with ilvl cap, out of 3k.

Running my event, without it. Roughly helped me get 20-30 people into PvP.

Runningy event with an ilvl cap, attracted roughly 150 people to my link shell in 3 weeks. Had very, very good feedback from all involved except those who wanted to use their gear as a crutch for the reasons they were losing.

[Menriq]

Roughly 1/5th of my matches fought were with ilvl cap, out of 3k.

Running my event, without it. Roughly helped me get 20-30 people into PvP.

Runningy event with an ilvl cap, attracted roughly 150 people to my link shell in 3 weeks. Had very, very good feedback from all involved except those who wanted to use their gear as a crutch for the reasons they were losing.

See my previous post. I am asking under the assumption the morale is removed, but even if it wasn't, it was covered under all other variables being equal. So the only difference is the AP points. Sorry if I'm missing it, but I don't see how you are accounting for this discrepancy when making the teams.

[Kantei]

Ahh at first we dealt with them by asking our higher ranked healers exclude using skills that the other healer didn't. Work OK.....but not the best.

We would also ask melee not to use fetterward versus new healers. Made it impossible for them to learn.

Then we stopped dealing with AP differences. It matters way less than you think if everyone is geared the same.

But, that is also due to how I handle match making. All in all though, AP discrepancies didn't matter a week into our event, both teams even on wins/losses if everyone wasn't completely new to PvP.

[Pibz]

For exemple, all healers will have 3800 hp and same amount of mind (even if one have full mind jewel and other have full vitality jewel), same thing for tank with vita or strengh jewel, they will have same stats...

You clearly don't understand how ilvl syncing works, it doesn't even work like this in pure lvl syncing...
Your gear stats will become lvled to the same as if they were of that ilvl, there's will be no static stat cap on your character, if you use str accessories you have more str and if you use vit acessories you have more vit.

is the discrepancy in AP available to a R40 vs a person stepping into PvP for the first time and how that is a "level playing field".

That aside, there's no measure of comparison between the advantage gear gives over abilities earned through the ranks, also it's better for multiclassing since you can just reset and don't have to grind the gear all over again

There's not even anything to discuss over what is more influential over the course of a match between abilities and gear, just try it out for yourself plenty of us already know the answer.

*Edit Came off way meaner than what was my intention, apologies*

[Menriq]

QQ more Wintrader.
That aside, there's no measure of comparison between the advantage gear gives over abilities earned through the ranks, also it's better for multiclassing since you can just reset and don't have to grind the gear all over again (though i guess that wouldn't be that hard for you huh?).

There's not even anything to discuss over what is more influential over the course of a match between abilities and gear, just try it out for yourself plenty of us already know the answer.

I'm not sure where the insults are from, but if it makes you feel better, go for it. I've started getting back into PvP now that my group has had T9 on farm for a while. While others in my group decide to play other games, I decided to pick back up PvP. I have yet to insult anyone, and just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't mean I can't respect your position. I'm sorry if you felt an honest question of how a R40 vs a R1 in terms of AP over the course of a 30 minute fight could be considered an uneven playing field. I honestly couldn't care less about morale since I do PvP as something casually, and actually look forward to objective based PvP than arena, and was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

[Kantei]

Nalien, Wolves Den is only short if the teams are mismatched. Some of have been in PvP matches that featured 2 limit breaks from 1 team.

If you think a short cool down is less important in a shortergame mode over a longer one. I'm not sure we can have an proper conversation about this.

The length of the match matters not. Because the damage rotations still end up the same regardless of the time of theatch. I.e. you can only do so much damage in 6 mins.

I've played over 600 matches with an ilvl cap. After the first 50 we stopped focusing on ranks/ability balance, because after we removed gear discrepancies, we realized they didn't need to focus on AP variance.

Making morale useless, and boosting under geared players, is the exact same thing. There is no difference.