Protesting Frontlines

[Nalien]

1.) Yes it does. It removes the gear gap, leaving only skill being the deciding factor, which is how pvp SHOULD be.

And the gap between Rank/AP, and a (much) lesser extent, racial stats?

Again, they can just close the gear gap with a buff. Everyone is capped to i80 already (if they raise that to i90 like they suggested, thats a big mistake that I wont even entertain at this point), then the difference in Morale is only a critical factor if you have none. A difference between i70 Morale and a capped i80 Morale is much more manageable, just throw in a buff that provides Morale up to a certain point, so it remains accessible while still keeping a progression system.

I agree though, a ranking system (like what we have for GC Seals) would be great. Did Yoshida actually give a reason as to why we don't have that? I get the feeling it'll be the same reasoning we got for Fresh Meat being a thing. If they intend to take out Morale though, they damn sure better have some serious adjustments planned. Wolves' Den simply isn't going to be a thing as it currently stands, except a haven for win traders to obtain their i100 vanity gear; rather than a haven for PvPers.

(or if I have missed it, I apologize and please let me know where the post is)

I mentioned it literally four posts up, and I think somewhere in another thread a few times.

[Menriq]

I mentioned it literally four posts up, and I think somewhere in another thread a few times.

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

[Nalien]

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

Ah, OK. Yeah, everyone has been skipping over that point whenever I bring it up (when they're not just resorting to out right insults).

I guess there is a case for not having Morale because it'll make matters worse, but you can balance Morale out by giving people a Morale buff. You can't really do the same with AP, unless they rework the system so you earn AP in battle (that would actually be interesting, though might not work with face paced combat).

Personally, I'd rather SE focus on not making it a level playing field for everyone, but instead making it a balanced one. Mix new PvPers with old ones and let there actually be a difference; every team has a balanced amount of people who are completely new, and people who have high Morale and high AP. If your teams new players get owned by your enemies high Morale players, it's either because they strayed off like a fool, or your teams high Morale players were derping.

ilvl cap and no PvP gear is the superior of the two. I put 6 months into my PvP gear. Still rather front lines be fun, over me melting under geared players.

And if the under geared players were given a buff that gives them a Morale boost? Then you'd have PvE players with, lets say, an equivalent to i65 Morale. PvP players in i70. PvP players in i90/100 capped down to i80. Would the difference in Morale there be enough to allow you to crush the under geared still?

And again, take into consideration the spread of players in a 24v24v24 match. You might be able to crush under geared players, but the PvPers on your opponents side can do the same to yours. I'll admit, that's something that can very quickly turn sour for new players, but it's still something to consider that nobody seems to be. Everyone is looking at Frontlines in terms of Wolves' Den mechanics.

[Kantei]

Ahh at first we dealt with them by asking our higher ranked healers exclude using skills that the other healer didn't. Work OK.....but not the best.

We would also ask melee not to use fetterward versus new healers. Made it impossible for them to learn.

Then we stopped dealing with AP differences. It matters way less than you think if everyone is geared the same.

But, that is also due to how I handle match making. All in all though, AP discrepancies didn't matter a week into our event, both teams even on wins/losses if everyone wasn't completely new to PvP.

[Pibz]

For exemple, all healers will have 3800 hp and same amount of mind (even if one have full mind jewel and other have full vitality jewel), same thing for tank with vita or strengh jewel, they will have same stats...

You clearly don't understand how ilvl syncing works, it doesn't even work like this in pure lvl syncing...
Your gear stats will become lvled to the same as if they were of that ilvl, there's will be no static stat cap on your character, if you use str accessories you have more str and if you use vit acessories you have more vit.

is the discrepancy in AP available to a R40 vs a person stepping into PvP for the first time and how that is a "level playing field".

That aside, there's no measure of comparison between the advantage gear gives over abilities earned through the ranks, also it's better for multiclassing since you can just reset and don't have to grind the gear all over again

There's not even anything to discuss over what is more influential over the course of a match between abilities and gear, just try it out for yourself plenty of us already know the answer.

*Edit Came off way meaner than what was my intention, apologies*

[Menriq]

QQ more Wintrader.
That aside, there's no measure of comparison between the advantage gear gives over abilities earned through the ranks, also it's better for multiclassing since you can just reset and don't have to grind the gear all over again (though i guess that wouldn't be that hard for you huh?).

There's not even anything to discuss over what is more influential over the course of a match between abilities and gear, just try it out for yourself plenty of us already know the answer.

I'm not sure where the insults are from, but if it makes you feel better, go for it. I've started getting back into PvP now that my group has had T9 on farm for a while. While others in my group decide to play other games, I decided to pick back up PvP. I have yet to insult anyone, and just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't mean I can't respect your position. I'm sorry if you felt an honest question of how a R40 vs a R1 in terms of AP over the course of a 30 minute fight could be considered an uneven playing field. I honestly couldn't care less about morale since I do PvP as something casually, and actually look forward to objective based PvP than arena, and was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

[Pibz]

I'm not sure where the insults are from, but if it makes you feel better, go for it. I've started getting back into PvP now that my group has had T9 on farm for a while. While others in my group decide to play other games, I decided to pick back up PvP. I have yet to insult anyone, and just because your opinion is different than mine doesn't mean I can't respect your position. I'm sorry if you felt an honest question of how a R40 vs a R1 in terms of AP over the course of a 30 minute fight could be considered an uneven playing field. I honestly couldn't care less about morale since I do PvP as something casually, and actually look forward to objective based PvP than arena, and was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

Hmm
I'm sorry then, didn't want to make it sound insulting at all, if anything it was more of a joke than anything else and a setup to the 2nd point, but yeah it came off way harsher than i intended, so don't take it too seriously lol.
As for the points i made i stand by them though, abilities have way less of an influence than gear in PvP, and having gear equalized gives us the possibility(gearing up several classes is pretty much impossible through regular means at the moment) to actually multiclass at any point.
Again sorry for answering you like that, was way out of line :/.

[Kantei]

If you are referring to post #115, that is just saying the same thing I am. What I am asking is that those who want Morale removed to make it a level playing field haven't made an argument (that I saw, which is what I wanted to know where the post was) about how removing PvP gear but leaving the AP is a level playing field. Sorry if I didn't get across clearer with my original post.

Roughly 1/5th of my matches fought were with ilvl cap, out of 3k.

Running my event, without it. Roughly helped me get 20-30 people into PvP.

Runningy event with an ilvl cap, attracted roughly 150 people to my link shell in 3 weeks. Had very, very good feedback from all involved except those who wanted to use their gear as a crutch for the reasons they were losing.

[Menriq]

Roughly 1/5th of my matches fought were with ilvl cap, out of 3k.

Running my event, without it. Roughly helped me get 20-30 people into PvP.

Runningy event with an ilvl cap, attracted roughly 150 people to my link shell in 3 weeks. Had very, very good feedback from all involved except those who wanted to use their gear as a crutch for the reasons they were losing.

See my previous post. I am asking under the assumption the morale is removed, but even if it wasn't, it was covered under all other variables being equal. So the only difference is the AP points. Sorry if I'm missing it, but I don't see how you are accounting for this discrepancy when making the teams.