Protesting Frontlines

[Kantei]

Arguing for morale and against AP is also hypocritical. Even if you are just using it as an example lol.

I'm not siding with for morale or against morale.

I saw another player say AP accounts for little, minor advantages. I am just confirming that claim. With two months of testing it to back up that claim.

The other thing, my LS tripled in size after we started making ilvl caps. And many people joined the public PvP scene after that. 37 of my members got to rank 20 in two weeks after giving ilvl capped PvP a try. Another 120 members got between 1-20 in a month. In pug and private PvP.

My point is, in ilvl cap we had time to explain the flow of combat, what they were doing wrong, what they should be doing, and the current metas of PvP, and how to negate them.

Taking away gear melting gave them the time to work out the kinks and gain a bit of muscle memory for the class.

After people got a taste of our event, they invited friends, and our event really started taking off.

My overall point is, ilvl PvP got a bunch of new blood into PvP on my server. And I can easily see people inviting their friends to a PvP mode that has an ilvl cap, and instant ques. Much like my event that has instant ques and an ilvl cap.

All in all, my only point is this a good thing for PvP. And I'm willing to give up 6 months worth of work for a better rule set than featured in Wolves Den. I rather have fun beating people with team work and skill versus some status symbol I earned.

And yeah rawk, I am a bit sensitive and tired of that subject xD. Sorry. I should post the new friendlies rule set, combined three old modifiers to replace balance matches, but positive/helpful threads get ignored on these forums :P

[Nalien]

Arguing for morale and against AP is also hypocritical. Even if you are just using it as an example lol.

I have never been arguing against AP, I said as much earlier. Stop mistaking my intent.

It is hypocritical to be OK with one advantage and damn another, solely because it provides an advantage. It is not hypocritical to point out the hypocrisy in such statements and provide reasoning for why it is hypocritical.

I mean seriously, if you lose the AP stats traits, and Morale is changed to effectively do the same thing... Then what difference is there? You rank up and get AP to spend, as well as Morale which is effectively just an old AP boost. People are fine with the AP boosts as it stands, so why would they then be against such a change to Morale? The developers can level players Morale with a buff, you can obtain Morale from Retainer Ventures if you're lucky, they can adjust Wolf Mark rewards to make Morale easier to obtain. They can do all these things which would make for a more level playing field while keeping Morale, but everyone seems to be against such suggestions, simply because it's Morale.

It's honestly baffling.

I completely agree with you when it comes to equalizing iLvs, that's actually why I like Morale (notice I've not been against the i80 cap). With Morale, everyone in PvP has a uniform that is exactly the same, that's the point of Morale in my opinion. They can balance it so it isn't a significant difference when you first enter, but once you've been in PvP for a while, you all get Morale gear and all wear it because it's PvP gear; everyone ends up in the same gear, with literally no difference.

[zulu_kulu]

Arguing for morale and against AP is also hypocritical. Even if you are just using it as an example lol.

no its not, in fact, agruing for AP and being against morale is hypocritical. whoever is saying AP is effect pvp minimal, clearly never use it in 30s/40s. the advantage is HUGE. the sole fact you can boost your stat and push out your dps or increase vit or heals by 25 stats fully max isn not "minimal ". it is basically another another stat you can toss on gear or 25 extra allocation points.


either make FL equal or not at all. there is no "middle" ground here.

[Kantei]

So now we are going the route of bringing up supposed 30/40 matches into front lines? When it has an i80 cap? Do you really think people will avoid 50's like they do in Wolves Den?

And if it minimal in 50's like you and I have said, and it has an armor cap 99% of all players can meet after a week of PvP.....we coming to the same conclusions yet?

[zulu_kulu]

So now we are going the route of bringing up supposed 30/40 matches into front lines? When it has an i80 cap? Do you really think people will avoid 50's like they do in Wolves Den?

And if it minimal in 50's like you and I have said, and it has an armor cap 99% of all players can meet after a week of PvP.....we coming to the same conclusions yet?

30/40s posses no morale, FL will have no morale. in 30s/40s the more pvp skills/ traits boost you have = you win faster by a mile. by stacking your main trait with ap you get 25 extra stats, which plays heavily in a no morale pvp setting.by having maxed AP in traits, you clearly have a huge advantage.


also i did not say it "minimal" in 50s, it still fucking huge advantage in 50s .no we arent coming the same conclusion, in fact,we arent on the same page at all!

[Rawk]

I think the point is that if they're removing morale to remove the advantage, why not remove every possible advantage there is, including AP (Regardless of how much the advantage gives).

Going back to my original statement, I might as well queue naked. It's silly.

[Pibz]

I think the point is that if they're removing morale to remove the advantage, why not remove every possible advantage there is, including AP (Regardless of how much the advantage gives).

Going back to my original statement, I might as well queue naked. It's silly.

Yes gear stats capped to i80 and going into PvP naked is totally the same, dat logic and fair point.

And now the defenders of having morale are going into how having almost 300 morale more(while still having abilities upgraded and trait stats) vs pve gear is even remotely close to solely having trait stats maxed(+25 at most) and abilities upgraded, please , either you are truly oblivious or you're just trying to use false arguments to push a point, either way it's embarrassing.
Because YES, there is such a thing as a middle ground...

[Nalien]

And now the defenders of having morale are going into how having almost 300 morale more(while still having abilities upgraded and trait stats) vs pve gear is even remotely close to solely having trait stats maxed(+25 at most) and abilities upgraded, please , either you are truly oblivious or you're just trying to use false arguments to push a point, either way it's embarrassing.
Because YES, there is such a thing as a middle ground...

Actually, if you ever read anything I said, I'm suggesting giving a Morale boost to people with none, meaning if i90/100 capped to i80 have 300 Morale, i70 has 250 Morale, and PvE has 200 Morale by default. As well as adjustments to Morale in general (at the extreme, making it exactly the same as the AP stats boost, while removing the AP stats boost; effectively no different from the current "No Morale, Keep AP"), both in its effect and speed the gear is acquired.

I'm here to tell you the model they chose works O.o.

Is that why people are upset with their gear being rendered moot? Is that why people are pointing out how Yoshida is going back on his word?

Yes, it "works", I'm not really arguing it doesn't. I'm arguing that there was a better way to make it work; a middle ground. They could have handled things much better, even if the way they've gone with does work. Gutting Morale was not the only, or in my opinion, the best, way to do things. Likely it was the fastest though, if they re-implement it at a later date when most people have the Marks for the gear/etc, and everybody is fine with that, I'm just going to roll my eyes at everyone disagreeing (to the point of throw insults) with my current point.

[Pibz]

Actually, if you ever read anything I said, I'm suggesting giving a Morale boost to people with none, meaning if i90/100 capped to i80 have 300 Morale, i70 has 250 Morale, and PvE has 200 Morale by default. As well as adjustments to Morale in general (at the extreme, making it exactly the same as the AP stats boost, while removing the AP stats boost; effectively no different from the current "No Morale, Keep AP"), both in its effect and speed the gear is acquired.

I wasn't referring to you, unless you also think it's fair to say that because they're removing morale frontlines going in naked is the same as going in with gear.

But I'll hand it to you, that is the one idea i agree with, they could just keep morale in frontlines and find a more finely tuned balance between pve gear and pvp gear ,so that PvP is still slightly better,but that coming into PvP with pve gear doesn't make you a complete gimp.

I never argued against that, only thing i have been arguing against is the idea that it won't be better/more balanced with no morale in frontlines vs the current system we have, and as i have said before this is likely to be a temporary measure to get a bigger chunk of the population geared up.

[Nalien]

I wasn't referring to you, unless you also think it's fair to say that because they're removing morale frontlines going in naked is the same as going in with gear.

My mistake, I mistook "the defenders of having morale" to imply anyone defending Morale, myself included.

The thing with Morale being taken out as a temporary measure, is that it doesn't work in the long run (without changes similar to what I've suggested). If they just go "OK, everyone has enough Wolf Marks for i90, we can put Morale back in and there wouldn't be a difference", then anyone who comes in new at that point is screwed in the same way we're against currently.