Protesting Frontlines

[Tandy]

3k matches, but aren't you the one that sets up those "friendlies"? It's easy to rack up a ton of matches that way and its borderline win-trading.

You go way out of your way to create a "easy" and "fun" environment for new pvpers, and although commendable, it actually does more harm than good. We're not here to ease babies into a competitive style play, we're here to play against other players in direct competition. Gear, abilities, and skill should all come into play. To ease newer players in there make it easier to grab pvp gear & ranks.

I wouldn't be caught dead in a friendly, because it's probably filled with crappy players, half-a$ pvpers, and a few skilled that get held back by the rest of their team, this is how I imagine frontlines will be without gear.

Wow tell us how you really feel! God forbid someone try to make a game FUN, it might be the hallmark of the destruction of the entire internet e-peen contests!

[Rawk]

Kantei, I never called you a win-trader. Please re-read my post, I said "..and its borderline win-trading" while referring to friendlies. That's because I think it's borderline win-trading. Not that you're blatantly win-trading.

Wow tell us how you really feel! God forbid someone try to make a game FUN, it might be the hallmark of the destruction of the entire internet e-peen contests!

"fun" was in quotation marks for a reason, friendlies aren't fun nor easy environment for new players. It's confusing, and annoying to say "oh your team lost X times, must not be fair, let's mix this up"

I'm on the side where i think gear should absolutely matter for PvP, all types of pvp. They basically made this huge tease of a awesome new pvp mode, and all this new pvp gear, and then disallowed it's use in Frontlines? That's the issue. That's what's upsetting.

[Tandy]

I think I might finally understand how to explain something to you Nalien. Hopefully this might make sense so you understand the other side.

A pvp stat enhances your innate damage AND your innate defense. Every ability and auto attack you give and receive benefits from it. This means taking less dmg, giving more and being easier to heal. All in one uber stat! It's also usually an exponential increase,the more you have the better it gets. Now imagine in one year, two years time how much morale will be in gear? It's always on, 100% uptime means it has a higher weight than any other upgrade to abilities, cool downs or other things.

Reducing one abiliites cool down by 2 minutes? Not anywhere near as good is it? That's why the increases to abilities and stuff are good advancements and morale isn't.



As far as for or against advantages.....I'm fine with normal, rank based advantages within reason. It's the within reason that is the sticking point between you and the ones who don't agree. I see an ability having shorter cool down as not put of bounds by the sheer fact it HAS a cool down. Morale is like taking an ability and removing the cool down totally, which isn't fair.

If you had ever played other MMO games with pvp stats you would understand. But I'm betting this is your first one, so you don't have the past experience in seeing how broken it can really get.....which is, to be blunt, extremely fucking broken.

Just for a reference here, I remember a time in that "other" game (WoW) where a fight between equally geared players would be measured in minutes....and a fight between a geared player and someone purposefully going in with NO pvp gear to illustrate how broken resilience was lasting maybe 7 seconds. Yes, a skilled pvp player with no gear who literally lasted less than 10 seconds who when geared could make anyone work for a kill. That's not even in the same universe as a cool down reduction is it?

Progression and new toys are always something you should get in pvp, but there are ways like titles, vanity gear, mounts and perks that make it still feel worthwhile to rank up but don't make it so your damn near a god against a new player. Some advantage is welcome, within reason. People calling no morale being fair and balanced don't expect everyone to have the same stats/ hp/mp and everything. They just want everyone to have a fair shot at success.

I guess people see morale as bad because it does everything. It's a "wonder stat". Nothing else in game does as much as it does. It makes everything better. And even if you made it so 100 points translated to +1 after so many patches and gear upgrades you get to the point you have 5000 morale. Stat inflation is an argument for another thread though lol. People kind of expect super stats and huge gear gaps in arena purely cause the ranked stuff is a lot of e-peen bragging on who's best. I wouldn't care if they got rid of it totally though and changed the existing gear to have a different stat on it.

From a purely fiscal and financial perspective which would you do if you were in charge? Make it so everyone had gear and ability upgrades that scaled across the board, that you simply add new tiers too....or design a system to constantly scale under geared players up to near where geared players were just so this one stat could exist on gear as you upgraded. Both do the same thing at the end of the day, but one is part of already financed game design (normal upgrades) and one is designing a brand new system to be yet another thing you have to maintain and cost more money? If everyone always has morale near each other, then what's the use of having morale. It's why it's considered a flawed stat period. It's either worthless or overpowered. It should have never been used in first place if they didn't want it, but what's done is done as in many MMO's who made the mistake.

[HaelseMikiro]

Knowing how SE handles things in this game, expect this to only be the FIRST tier of frontlines introduced. No doubt that SE will "observe" how the community handles frontlines for a month or two, and then decide to put out more frontlines with higher ilvl syncs and other stat restrictions/liberties.

[Shake0615]

Knowing how SE handles things in this game, expect this to only be the FIRST tier of frontlines introduced. No doubt that SE will "observe" how the community handles frontlines for a month or two, and then decide to put out more frontlines with higher ilvl syncs and other stat restrictions/liberties.

I'm really hoping Frontlines gather enough support so that this becomes more of a development priority. If this is as fun as it looks, I don't know if I'll be able to wait another year to get another one!

[Nalien]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...1db2da455c74e7

Completely off topic, but am I the only one who wants to wander around Frontlines, rather than actually participate at first? Looks like such an amazing zone that you potentially wont get to see all of unless you change Grand Company and lose your Rank (which means nothing apparently, so whatever). Maybe matches will end up so one sided that we can jump around enemy camps and kill them as they respawn though. Damn that zone looks nice though.

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

im ok with ilvl sync, but Morale gear should be taken into account, what if i want to do frontlines and i dont like arenas? why would i grind marks on frontlines to buy pvp gear that is only usable on arenas . if i dont like arenas i end up wasting inventory space :s and time

[Kantei]

Ehh more random insults and more random crap that has nothing to do with anything lol. I swear most of these posts seem like they are written in crayon.

If gear is equal AP differences are minimal, plain and simple.

Last nights set of friendlies:
Had a rank 3 healer, completely stomping in a rank 27 healer.
50 cap friendlies: 6/16/2014
Team A: Tank 33, Melee 27, ranged 19, healer 3
Team B: Tank 27, Melee 26, ranged 17, Healer 27.

The 27 healer for team B, usually plays SMN. Team A's was new to the shell and PvP. The brand new healer, stamped the other team in after a little coaching. All they needed to know, is what skills to use when O.o.

Again, AP accounts for very little if the gear is even. Over 2 months of testing this. Stop making up supposed situations that you are testing with people with mismatched gear O.o

And to Rawk, be sure about what you are saying. My event does not win trade, nor create weak players. You have the wrong idea.

I heard all of balmung win trades, many players on my server fled yours to get away from it. You don't see me spreading rumors about you do you? No I wouldn't do something as stupid as share my opinion without knowing the facts O.o

Sad sad community we have on this website when it's easier to have a conversation on gamefaqs or red dit lol.

[Menriq]

snip

How long do the matches generally last?

[Nalien]

Again, AP accounts for very little if the gear is even.

And again, that is still an advantage. One player has an advantage over another because of superior/faster skills, it doesn't matter how much of an advantage it is, what matters is that it is there. Why is it OK to allow this advantage, but any suggestion for Morale is instantly shot down just because it's Morale? I've even suggested taking the stats traits away from AP and making Morale equivalent to it, that is literally no difference from a non-miss matched gear but miss-matched AP scenario, but it's wrong because Morale?

The fact that, unless they add new crafted Morale gear, you earn Morale alongside earning AP through Ranking up, makes the difference even more inane in my eyes. Heck, if everyone is getting Morale gear for the same difference AP provides, then there is no miss-match of gear; everyone is in the same uniform.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as insulting, I'm really not trying to, but it just seems incredibly hypocritical to damn one advantage, no matter what changes are proposed, and OK another under the guise of having a level playing field. There is already the possibility that they'll raise the cap to i90, in which case that just further miss-matches gear anyway; Wolfram/Cashmere/etc. get the advantage of penta melds over anything else. At least with gear and Morale running parallel to the AP bonus you can provide everyone with a standard uniform to PvP in, almost completely removing any gear miss-matches. The only issue preventing that is how much of a grind obtaining PvP gear is, but again, that's something I've suggested be addressed, which is apparently appalling because we simply shouldn't have any difference from gear, while being OK with any difference from Rank. Despite the fact Rank and PvP gear run parallel to each other already.