NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Nalien]

Edit: Also, because you keep insisting you dont play a class past 30. Yes. You do.

How many Gladiators have you seen in Coil? Not Paladins, but people actually playing Gladiator the Class. Have you seen a single person playing the Class at 50, or are they all on the Job?

Ninja will take Rouges base, and turn it into Ninja. At that point it stops being Rouge. Since Classes are not used at 50, Rouge will be gone at 50. Any delusion of Rouge = Thief will thus be gone at 50. You're either a Ninja or you're not invited to any serious content. "Thief", thusly, would not be used in endgame, unless they make Thief a Job that comes off a Class.

The solution to there being no Thief in the game is not to sit on Ninja and pretend you're on Thief. If that was a solution, they wouldn't add Ninja at all; "Go get Fuma and pretend Monk is Ninja", please ignore the fact that that's exactly what I've been doing for the past few months, though.

[Monsalvato]

Edit: Also, because you keep insisting you dont play a class past 30. Yes. You do.

[cut]

No intention to sound offensive or untactful, but I think you're unawaringly doing the same logic mistake as Gilraen in the previous page.
Yes, what you said is true but try to see what Nalien said from a different perspective.
What is the purpose of Class in the current game, aside from the lore things? (which I loved, personally).

The things you and Gilraen said are true, but they do not justify the existance of classes (remnants of Tanaka's FFXIV). Game would be exactely the same if classes didn't exist and all of what you mentioned was directly imbued into jobs.
Aside from lore implications of course.

Classes remained initially because Yoshi-P had a purpose for them, he wanted this "duality" to exist with different roles. Things turned out differently for one reason or another and AT THE MOMENT, they serve no purpose at all. Everything that is currently done with Classes could be done without (yes, my beloved lore too) and it would probably work better, feel more streamlined and less clunky.

[Umisame]

i hope soldiery/allagan sets from mnk can be used by ninjas. But maybe is brd and nin. i want to know!!!

Edit:
I think nin will share with mnk. Nin could be str and if SE adds thief to rogue then thf could be dex(brd) D;

[LoLo]

How often do you see Archers in instances after 30? What about Gladiators, or Lancers? PvP is literally the only place Classes can shine, and even then that's just Gladiator and Marauder.

Classes may as well be their Jobs once you hit 30, Rouge and Ninja should be no different. Rouge could be a proxy for Thief, but if you're playing Ninja, you certainly aren't playing Thief. Last I checked Thief didn't do crazy hand signs and spit ice, at least.

So, Thief either is Rouge, and it's gone after 30, or Thief is a Job at some point. For it not to happen at all just contradicts the implementation of Jobs at all.

I have been trying to explain this thank you.

I liked how you mentioned Yoshi P saying he would bring back classic Final Fantasy Jobs but is now go back on his word to the community if he reverts Thief only to a class named Rogue or doesn't add Thief at all.

I wanted to add that I do not see any harm in including a Thief Job is this game that stems from Rogue. A name change of Rogue class to Thief class will also be problematic and not what people who are interested in playing a Thief.

Yes, it would harm and affect others play styles, because hey look, even more dps jobs we dont need. I said having a different role- tank or healer, would be far more beneficial for everyone. DPS queues are already insane, and there are never enough tanks or healers. ...................................................

I can understand having a job you really love and want added to the game. Maybe Im biased because I was never that big a fan of thief
Edit: Also, because you keep insisting you dont play a class past 30. Yes. You do.

Ninja addition to this game will not be the last DPS job to be added. People who want to play tank will still main a tank job. The people who already play a DPS job will still main a DPS job and that is what Ninja and any other additional DPS job in the future will be for. You can not make people who do not want to main a Tank or Healer play them by adding additional tank and healing options. In all MMO's there are more DPS players than healers and tanks.

I can't understand your bias or against Thief Job being in this game. There are possible future classes and jobs that I don't want to play but I don't mind it being released.

[ereskigal]

One thing not sure if anyone brought this up yet but notice how ninja holds the weapon different from its so call class? They even move/run different!! Some ppl say that the weapon ninja is holding is it's relic is reason why it's diffrent from ninja but I don't think this is the case, I'm thinking SE is going to drop a bomb today on a second job branching off this class.

[Nalien]

I have been trying to explain this very concept, but at this point the people who are replying to me refused to try and understand this.

I'm really surprised at the "hate" Thief is getting here, I can understand people having concerns about it being added, but quite a few people just seem to out right reject the very concept of it getting added.

I know I keep coming back to Bard, but it's the perfect example. Plenty of people suggest Ranger should come off Archer, when they do people don't claim that "Bard is just Ranger with Songs", or that Archer is already Ranger. They have concerns about how it would be added, usually leading to people suggesting Bard be changed to be more Bard, but they don't out right reject the idea. Rouge, Ninja and Thief is almost exactly the same, with Ninja being close to Bard from what I've read;

Ninjas will incorporate the abilities of rogues and will also have Ninjutsu and hand gestures. The gestures will be combined in different ways and will result in different Ninjutsu abilities.

That makes it sound like Ninja will have a deceptively large number of Job abilities, just like Summoner and Scholar. Rather than them being tied to pets though, they'll be through combinations. That's the sort of thing they should have done with Bard to give it more than three bloody songs (how am I still mad about that?). It allows the Job to be very distinctive from the Class.

That alone can make Ninja feel very distinct from Rouge, and thus Thief which would just be the natural progression of Rouge, just like Ranger would be the natural progression of Archer.

I think nin will share with mnk. Nin could be str and if SE adds thief to rogue then thf could be dex(brd) D;

I'd hope Ninja has something similar to Clerics Stance; converts STR into INT. The Rouge/Melee moves use STR, when you want to throw down some Ninjutsu, you switch your STR to INT.

[Monsalvato]

One thing not sure if anyone brought this up yet but notice how ninja holds the weapon different from its so call class?

Huh? I noticed the pretty different animations, but holding them differently?
Ninja holds Katana the "traditional" FF way. That is with the blade coming out from the lower part of the hand (not from, the side where the thumb is)
Daggers are traditionally held the opposite way, with the blade coming out from the side with the Thumb.
Rogue instead holds daggers just like you'd hold Katanas, just like Thancred does in the Leviathan cut-scenes.
That's the same exact way of holding Katanas though.
Where do you see the difference?

[Monsalvato]

They have concerns about how it would be added, usually leading to people suggesting Bard be changed to be more Bard

I still dream about that happening... but realistically it will never happen unless they modify their trinity model to be less strict.
If they were to enlarge the current very strict trinity system from Tank, Healer, DD to Tank, Healer, DD, Hybrid... then yes, it might happen.

I doubt it will because it makes things much harder for them to balance and handle, but personally I love such a model way more than the oversimplified one they're currently using, so yeah, let's keep our fingers crossed.

[Adrian74]

Oh, cool! FINALLY some class-jobs using two weapons... When I started playing the symbol of the gladiators (two swords) called my attention too much, then for discovering it was just one sword...

So I'm happy to see it coming, a shame it is for 2.4 ... Pfft... When will we see them? December?... :/

About the super thief fight... AREN'T ROGUE AND THIEF THE DAMN *** THING?....

With all respect, where's the difference?...It it is that you want to have one ninja job and one agile two swords-weapons wielder job, then say it like that, but in my opinion thief and rogue are...The same?

(I hope they'll add a tank and healer too... Because else the world will be even more filled of DPS... who wouldn't like to use or try the new classes?!) The lack of healers and tanks will be even more pronnunciated in 2.4

Maybe they are for 2.4 because they need time yet for preparing the other secret classes-jobs...

[Nalien]

With all respect, where's the difference?...

Thief, as a Job, would be used at endgame (or just post-30). Rouge, as a Class, would not.

Is this really a difficult concept to understand? People want Thief as a Job, because it's one of the more iconic Jobs in the franchise, which is why Yoshida even implemented Jobs in the first place. Literally his first order of business after taking over XIV was to implement iconic Final Fantasy Jobs...

Honestly, the reasoning of "What's the difference?" makes very little sense to me. What's the difference between Gladiator and Paladin? Literally the only iconic thing Paladin adds is Cover, and I very rarely see people using that. Lancer and Dragoon? All they added was Jumps. Why exactly is it so unreasonable to expect Rouge => Thief as a second Job when it would really be no different than what every other Job is?

People keep making this argument that Rouge might as well be Thief, because Jobs only add 5 abilities. Isn't that just an argument to add Thief though? Jobs only add AF/Relics and 5 abilities, so why not make Rouge => Thief? Most Job abilities aren't strictly related to the FF canon, for the most part they're just generic MMO moves. I really do not understand the rejection of a Thief Job possibility...