Question: What is Dragoon best at ?

[Alenore]

While I don't know about SMN numbers in endgame (the 2k windblade is laughable, though. Sure, your pet 100 potency move does more damage than a dragoon 330 potency under full buff), I know about potency.

During VT-FT, so 2GCD or 5 seconds, you can do 200 (VT) + 330 (FT) + 300 (Jump) + 250 (Dragonfire Dive).
Considerong you'll pop Life Surge on FT, make it a 495 move, and assuming 30% crit (20% base, a bit high + 10% from IR), let's add 15% to the others.
It brings us to 230 for VT, 495 for FT, 345 for Jump, 287(.5) for Dragonfire Dive. If that's true burst, we won't have any dot on them, since they'd be a DPS loss. I'm also not counting disembowel, even if we'd have it on it if we planned the burst (ID on the boss, switch, Dis, start FT combo)

We're under BfB, so let's add 30% to all of this, it makes around 1764(.75) potency.

But oh wait! I'm not counting our Heavy Thrust buff. It brings us to 2029.46 potency.

Now for the sake of the argument, let's assume the target has all dot on its face already, and shadow flare. I'm not counting Miasma II, because if you have to burst, you're not having fun going melee to use a spell.
We' have at best 2 ticks of a total of 135 potency (270), plus one fester (300), plus 1 pet attack (100*0.4*0.4) and Enkindle (250*0.4*0.4), one ruin II (80), two ruin I (160) at best.

Let's assume a 20% crit again, so 10% more damages.

((270 + 300 + 80 + 160) * 1.2 + 196 + 490) * 1.1 = 1823.8 potency


So even if the stars align, that the SMN manage to have all his 3 dots on the target, plus shadow flare (already 10 seconds of casting just for that), have spur/enkindle/rouse/Raging Strike up and at least 1 aetherflow, it still would do less potency on that 5 second window.
Note that I assumed the pet potency was worth as much as the SMN, which i'm not sure since I think they get only a part of your stats.




Since it's only a short window, it doesn't mean much, so let's say the target has to die in less than 15 seconds, so 6 GCD. Think Conflagration.
What I'd do is, have HT just refreshed and start the ID combo on Twin.

Pre-pop : Blood for Blood
GCD 1 : Disembowel + Internal Release (220 potency. Count 11% more damages on the other skill because of Disembowel now)
GCD 2 : Chaos Thrust + Power Surge (There will be around 3 and 4 ticks. Let's count 3. 222 + 90 = 312 potency)
GCD 3 : Phlebotomize + Jump (188 + 75 + 333 = 596 potency)
GCD 4 : True Thrust + Spineshatter Dive (166 + 188 = 354 potency)
GCD 5 : Vorpal Thrust + Life Surge (222 potency)
GCD 6 : Full Thrust + Dragonfire Dive (366*1,5 + 300 = 849 potency)

Add all of this, it brings us to 2553 potency.
After adding 15% to all of this for the 30% crit rate, except Disembowel that has only 10% (IR isn't up yet) and Full Thrust which is 100% crit, we have 2842.6 potency.
Add Full thrust (+15%) and Blood for Blood (+30%) => 4249.7 potency in 15 seconds.


Let's do the same Job with SMN. This time, I won't be assuming the target already has dot, but that it can be spread using Bane. I don't exactly know how Bane works, if it snapshots the dot power when it was applied or if it recalculates. I'll just assume it was buffed and Raging strike will be up for the whole duration of the fight, to make it easy and buff a little our SMN pals.


Pre-pop : Shadow Flare + Rouse
CD 1 : Bane + Spur (no damage here)
CD 2 : Ruin I + Fester (380 potency)
CD 3 : Ruin I + Energy Drain (Fester on CD. No more Aetherflow. 230 potency)
CD 4 : Ruin I + Aetherflow (80 potency)
CD 5 : Ruin I + Fester (380 potency)
CD 6 : Ruin I + Aetherflow (230 potency)

A grand total of 1300 potency. 1430 after the crit.

On the 15 seconds, Garu will have time for 5 attacks (3 second GCD on her skill), i'm counting one of them to be Enkindle. Rouse and Enkindle will last the whole duration, so 96% more damages.
It'll do a full 650*1.96 potency, or 1274 potency. 1401 potency after crit

During these 15 seconds, the dots will also proc 5 times (at best. Very best). 550 potency, 605 potency after crit.

We're under Raging Strike. As far as I know, ther's nothing else to take into account but 3 dots, pet damages, and your own damages :
(1430 + 605) * 1,2 + 1401 = 3843 potency in 15 seconds.



Let's sum up, there's a bit of math and people don't like maths :
- I've assumed the less tick of dots for DRG, and the max for SMN,
- In a 5 second window, DRG does more potency than SMN,
- In a 15 second window (common window for something to burst), DRG does more potency than SMN,
- That is, everyone has all cooldowns and stars align perfectly under the constellation of the Dragoon and the Summoner,
- I DIDN'T INCLUDE AUTO ATTACKS IN DRAGOON DAMAGES, WHICH ACCOUNTS FOR ROUGHLY 20-25% OF THE TOTAL DPS OF A DRAGOON,
- I DIDN'T INCLUDE FOE REQUIEM, BECAUSE WE'RE COMPARING 2 JOBS. But even if I did, auto attack totally compensate +10% damages.

So, DRG Burst > SMN Burst. Math prove it, real life prove it, only delusional people say the opposite.
We're calculating only the damages done to one target, while the SMN ha ots ticking on the boss while DPSing the add, but so does the DRG (for half the potency. 110 for SMN, 55 for DRG).


Please, stop arguing that SMN does more damages than DRG now ; ;

[BlackThought]

But what if I feeeeeeel like summoner is better at burst?! /sarcasm

[Remn]

Short answer and prolly wrong, DRG is best at back flip off the platform and fall to their death... ^^"

[Altimis]

Hey there

Magic Potency is not equal to Physic Potency, No?

Not come here to argue about burst damage, just curious if you guys know its equal or not (since I curious as well)

When I look at Garuda attack vs Ifrit attack, my Garuda have less potency (magic) than Ifrit (physic) but Garuda (100 P) per hit is hit harder than Ifrit skill attack (120 P) and not count Ifrit AA

[whiskeybravo]

Magic Potency is not equal to Physic Potency, No?

Yea I actually started thinking about that last night and am going to do some testing. One interesting thing is that the magic damage on weapons is quite a bit more than physical damage for melees. I'm going to try to get my SMN and DRG equally equipped on Int/Str and compare FT (buffed and unbuffed) to Fester. My inclination based on just playing the classes a bunch, I think Fester does a bit more damage at 300 pot than a 330 pot Full Thrust. They aren't really equally geared though (same ilvl but SMN has Allagan book and about 10 more int than my Drg's str)

Short answer and prolly wrong, DRG is best at back flip off the platform and fall to their death... ^^"

That seems to be more of a problem with Bard's Repelling Shot from my experience.. I've actually never back-flipped in to or off of anything xD

So, DRG Burst > SMN Burst. Math prove it, real life prove it, only delusional people say the opposite.

The only thing you need to do is take a SMN and a DRG to any area with higher level mobs and see who kills them faster.. Will be DRG every time.

[Alenore]

You'd rather compare Energy Siphon and True Thrust, since there's a 30 difference in potency on FT/Fester, just to make sure ^^
I did try with WHM (Stone II / Phlebotomize, same amount of int/str, but a huge difference in det), and Stone II was hitting harder than phleb, by around 70%. It would then round to the equivalent of 289 potency for a DRG.
Which means a WHM spamming Stone II would do more average damages than a DRG spamming all his combo o/ So there's something else, or equations aren't linear.

A SMN i84 with a i80 weapon fester between 680-720, which is more than an equally geared DRG with FT, so potency isn't the same for magic and physical user. I'll check the combat log next time i'll be playing with a SMN to know how much damage it averages every time.

[ChaozK]

A SMN i84 with a i80 weapon fester between 680-720, which is more than an equally geared DRG with FT, so potency isn't the same for magic and physical user. I'll check the combat log next time i'll be playing with a SMN to know how much damage it averages every time.

The potency is most likely equal, however magic users have significantly higher Weapon Damage. For comparison the high allagan SMN weapon has 77 WD while the DRG weapon has 53 WD.
In return, physical DDs get auto attacks.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I'll be honest, I always found DRG to be better than MNK in mobile fights. As others have stated, no greased lightning plus the fact that a lot of its DPS comes from DoTs make it double great for mobile fights. Also best AoE for melee comparable almost to Blm when in sustained DPS.

[Chihaya]

Dragoons are best at dying.

And taking loot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDg44MVJLrw

/joke

[Altijacek]

The way I see it, a summoner is like a monk. High damage over time. The black Mage is like a DRG, burst damage with moments of cooldown. The difference is monk and DRG are melee whereas blm and smn are magic, that's all.