Cash shops: Whats wrong with you?

[Karnyboy]

Yeah the server thing is probably just you, i dont have those problems and i just talked to everyone in my fairly large FC nobody else has any problems with the server either.

Paying extra money for content that should already be in our SUB BASED mmo is just no
that and again, im seriously going all in and saying if they included a cash shop SE would lose over half thier sub base

I think ultimately you're missing the point. Many of us who are pro-cash shop don't want it to be a requirement to play the game at its fullest. supporters of the CS ideal want it to be spice that adds flavor but not be something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward.

[skaterger]

I think ultimately you're missing the point. Many of us who are pro-cash shop don't want it to be a requirement to play the game at its fullest. supporters of the CS ideal want it to be spice that adds flavor but not be something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward.

The irony is that there are F2P games out there with a cash shop that are NOT P2W. *Cough Rift cough*. They sell vanity items, stash space, gear and armor that are not top tier (think CT gear). These are exactly the items that pro cash shop players are advocating since they do not "break" the game and "something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward." But think about it, why would I play FF14, a P2P game when I can play RIFT, a F2P game if I have to deal with a cash shop in both games. The obvious answer is that these additional benefits are covered under our subscription and any additional content they want to produce should be earned by players through quests or gameplay and not the cash shop.

Excuse me for being crude but instead of telling us how we should pander to cash shops, why don't you do yourself a favor by saving $12 monthly and go play a non P2W F2P game like rift since that is what you seem to be asking for.

[HakuroDK]

snip

Not gonna lie, but that sounds kinda mean-spirited and closed-minded. "If you want this feature in this game that I don't like, go play this other game that has that feature and stop bothering us with it." is all I'm hearing. Maybe you could explain it to me better in a reply if I'm not getting the message there, but I just don't see any legitimate downside to a non-P2W cash shop, especially when there are those of us who want to contribute to the game's success more than we already are.

[skaterger]

Not gonna lie, but that sounds kinda mean-spirited and closed-minded. "If you want this feature in this game that I don't like, go play this other game that has that feature and stop bothering us with it." is all I'm hearing. Maybe you could explain it to me better in a reply if I'm not getting the message there, but I just don't see any legitimate downside to a non-P2W cash shop, especially when there are those of us who want to contribute to the game's success more than we already are.

Yeah like I said that was crude and kind of a low blow and I apologize if it offended anyone.

You are already indirectly contributing to the game's success by subbing every month aren't you? If you want to do more, you can make a personal donation I'm sure SE wouldn't reject that The biggest problem with the cash shop is that many players are uncomfortable with the idea of one and it can push many players over the edge and do more harm than good and I'm sure we would not like to see it come to that. Let me give you another example, Wow's blizzard store. Initially, they only had QOL things like name changes and server transfer but not long after they added vanity things like pets and mounts and unsurprisingly these mounts were much better looking than the ones that came in the game. What this did was segregate those that could afford/wanted the mount and those that could not/did not want to. It also led to a loss of confidence in the company as players wondered if in subsequent patches, the nicest items would only come from the cash shop.

I'm not making this up as the evidence is all in the Wow forums around the year 2010-2011. Many players were pissed at that time but thought that was the furthest that blizzard would go but lo and behold, they now have added a level 90 boost in their cash shop. Would you consider that P2W? I would say so. Objectively a cash shop might not be such a bad thing, but player's experiences with other f2p games might cause a stigma which would casue them to leave should a cash shop ever materialize in this game. I would very likely leave if a cash shop was ever implemented.

[Amberion]

Bunch of stuff.

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

[Skull_Angel]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

Crafters not being able to make every vanity item would be a small issue if they had access to recipes that were more comparable to raid level (doesn't have to be equal) gear. Currently this is one of the biggest issue for crafters, another being the ease of acquisition of equivalent non-crafted gear for players.

RPers wanting in-game access to vanity is a very valid point though, thanks for bringing that up.

[HakuroDK]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

You are making a LOOOT of inaccuracies and assumptions here, broski.

First, "pot, meet kettle" is an expression referring to hypocrisy. Being okay with something and not caring about something are almost literally the same thing, which is the very antithesis of being a hypocrite.

Second, it's not hypocritical of me to say that I don't think a cash shop is gamebreaking because you assume that I'm a raider and I don't care about roleplayers or crafters, because it's a wildly inaccurate and downright false assumption. Roleplaying is actually my preferred style of gameplay. If you want, I can actually link you to my Hydaelyn RP Community profile (which, in fairness, has not been updated in a while). I even belong to the Order of the Sword and Rose FC, which is a well-known RP FC.

Third, gear that amplifies stats would affect crafters and gatherers just as much as it would affect raiders. They all rely on stats.

Fourth, Roleplayers--at least decent people who are roleplayers--don't criticize or judge others OOC for how they dress, and especially when it would come to various articles of Cash Shop clothing, all it would do is give some variety, if anything, to the appearance of a character and would have absolutely no advantage whatsoever to that person's personality, backstory, RP style, character interactions, or anything else. In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Never make assumptions, especially when trying to say how bad something you don't like is. All it ends up doing is make you look like a dick, and no one wants to see that in public.

[Amberion]

Snip.

Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded. And as for you being an RPer, I really only know what your posts said. And in those, yes it seemed to be hypocritical of you. At least does to me, maybe I just interpret your post in a way you didn't mean..

And your other posts where like this quote:

Like I said, as long as it's flooded with stuff that doesn't increase stats or unlock dungeons, quests, and other related content

It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

[HakuroDK]

Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded.

I'll explain myself.

The person I called closed-minded outright refused to hear anything on the subject of a cash shop, immediately calling it bad, and told someone that, if they like a cash shop so much, they can go somewhere else.

The textbook definition of being closed-minded is: obstinately resistant to argument or to unfamiliar or unwelcome ideas. Source: Merriam-Webster


Which, on the subject of the definition of closed-mindedness, it is often used out of context of its actual meaning to refer to anything that disagrees with anyone else regardless of how well they listen to the opposing viewpoint, much like the word irony is often used to define a coincidence rather than its actual definition which refers to something happening contrary to or despite certain conditions dictating otherwise.

Not once was I ever closed-minded about anything. All I have ever stressed since the start is that I lack the understanding as to why a Cash Shop is such a bad thing, and only one person during this whole argument has ever given me a valid argument against cash shops. I even liked his post, quoted it, and said "This is how you argue your point." A closed-minded person would NEVER acknowledge someone who disagrees with them as having a valid point.

It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

If you'll notice, while I said dungeons (which are, indeed, related to combat), I also mentioned quests and other related content, which could be pretty much everything from combat to crafting to gathering to even dancing, as a few quest chains in 2.2 have done. I don't think content that tells a story should be locked to anyone. I only made the distinction to dungeons because, if I were to say "I don't want content that increases stats or unlocks content", people would automatically assume, for some reason, that I thought that buying any cash shop item would "unlock" it as "content", and I wanted to avoid that at whatever cost, but apparently, I still got misunderstood. Again.

Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

Now I'm normally one who gets obsessed with vanity-related stuff, but with this... is how someone looks such a barrier to RP? Because other than certain FCs who have a dress code, I don't really get that. And if you're thinking about things like approachability, that's not it either. I'm on Balmung, an RP server. Every week or so, I wander into the Quicksand in Ul'dah and take a seat, wearing my normal vanity (seen in my sig below). Not a single time did I ever get approached by anyone ever to start an RP. Probably because I'm a Roegadyn and people tend to be more fond of approaching scantily-clad Miqo'te or any non-Roe female characters than anyone who looks even remotely interesting, but that's just my point of view.

I just don't feel like you've proven your point to me at all.

[Karnyboy]

And GW2 is basically the same as Rift, but they are two completely different games, just as FFXIV is different, play what you enjoy. If you are paying to play FFXIV now and enjoy it then what's the fuss about? Myself, you and everyone else would be playing GW2 or Rift because it's F2P if we enjoyed it, but we don't.

I will still support a CS in a game that P2P as long as my monthly sub doesn't have to include an additional XX dollars to remain relevant/competitive.



An example....imagine to unlock any iLvl 115 Weapons required a token that you could only get from a CS, that would be P2W.....that I cannot support.

I can support a CS with a potion that lets me change my race, etc, because I see it as a means to an end for people that created a character they originally had no intention of keeping but ended up wanting to keep it. It's not fair to them who may be hating to play just because of mere aesthetics, but it exists. So charge them $5.00 or whatever it may be, they'll either buy it or not. Where's the issue?