Cash shops: Whats wrong with you?

[Dgsoil]

To HakuroDK, a 90k error means that the connection has been lost on either end, which often is more related to your own side then the game, though I won't say it's not their fault. But instead of just blaming it on them, try to find the cause on your side. Some ISP's block services like FFXIV. It can vary from game to game before you claim it's never been an issue before. There may be a fault in your connection somewhere, I actually had this problem recently where my modem was overheating and would just disconnect me. And so on and so on.

tl;dr - 90k's aren't ALWAYS SE's fault, try to trace the problem on your end and see if you come up with a solution.

On-Topic: Why do I not want a cash shop? Because Yoshi-p literally promised (not that his word means much to me at this point) this game would fail before it went f2p with a cash shop. So I guess he is going to twist it so that it's p2p with a cash shop instead? Seems like bull to me. I don't mind minor services like the Fantasia, Server Transfers, maybe even 'Namingway Cards' because that gives you no advantage (other then escaping your bad reputation), the retainer thing is a bit irksome but they had that plan back in 1.0 too so I saw it coming. If it goes much more than that then the game isn't worth subbing anymore, just my humble opinion. I won't pay a monthly fee for a game where I need to buy Gems to upgrade my weapons (common in f2p w/ cash shop games) as well, that's just TAKE MY MONEY SE mode. And they would no longer deserve it.

[Malamasala]

A cash shop will always affect someone, and this person will be upset if paying is their only option. (It is like blackmail. And the first company that manages to make blackmail popular, will strike it big.)

This is why I repeatedly state that only existing free items can be sold in a cash shop. Your option should always be to spend an evening or a day or a week to grind the item, or buy it in the shop.

Personally I'd love if you could buy key items that read "If you defeat Ifrit, you can trade this in for an ifrit weapon". So you can cut down on grinding, but still have to beat content. I.e. you can't buy yourself past content, but you can bribe lady luck to give you exactly what you wanted.

I guess this would fall under the category of Pay2Luck?

[Skull_Angel]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

Crafters not being able to make every vanity item would be a small issue if they had access to recipes that were more comparable to raid level (doesn't have to be equal) gear. Currently this is one of the biggest issue for crafters, another being the ease of acquisition of equivalent non-crafted gear for players.

RPers wanting in-game access to vanity is a very valid point though, thanks for bringing that up.

[HakuroDK]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

You are making a LOOOT of inaccuracies and assumptions here, broski.

First, "pot, meet kettle" is an expression referring to hypocrisy. Being okay with something and not caring about something are almost literally the same thing, which is the very antithesis of being a hypocrite.

Second, it's not hypocritical of me to say that I don't think a cash shop is gamebreaking because you assume that I'm a raider and I don't care about roleplayers or crafters, because it's a wildly inaccurate and downright false assumption. Roleplaying is actually my preferred style of gameplay. If you want, I can actually link you to my Hydaelyn RP Community profile (which, in fairness, has not been updated in a while). I even belong to the Order of the Sword and Rose FC, which is a well-known RP FC.

Third, gear that amplifies stats would affect crafters and gatherers just as much as it would affect raiders. They all rely on stats.

Fourth, Roleplayers--at least decent people who are roleplayers--don't criticize or judge others OOC for how they dress, and especially when it would come to various articles of Cash Shop clothing, all it would do is give some variety, if anything, to the appearance of a character and would have absolutely no advantage whatsoever to that person's personality, backstory, RP style, character interactions, or anything else. In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Never make assumptions, especially when trying to say how bad something you don't like is. All it ends up doing is make you look like a dick, and no one wants to see that in public.

[Nuinn]

Because paying extra in an mmo where you already pay a sub price is just a bundle of fun isnt it? you do realize they could just add all the item people are asking to be in the cash shop in game right?
Not that it matters much because those people are a vocal minority in a vocal minority so i doubt we will ever see a cash shop and if we do im moving to archeage and black desert

There's other things, I'm sure for any of us, that are already in game and aren't all that fun. That aside, it's still a business. I don't mean to scare you too much but we currently have, in game, some things that the vocal minority within the vocal minority has been loud about :X My personal feel, call it just a hunch, is that there's no realistic need for an item shop. The game seems do be doing fairly well with numbers, we haven't had an official (paid for) expansion yet and they do seem to "give us what we want" via the standard P2P model.

[HakuroDK]

There's other things, I'm sure for any of us, that are already in game and aren't all that fun. That aside, it's still a business. I don't mean to scare you too much but we currently have, in game, some things that the vocal minority within the vocal minority has been loud about :X My personal feel, call it just a hunch, is that there's no realistic need for an item shop. The game seems do be doing fairly well with numbers, we haven't had an official (paid for) expansion yet and they do seem to "give us what we want" via the standard P2P model.

Just as an FYI for those who oppose the idea of a Cash Shop, this is how you argue your point. This point is actually valid and makes sense.

[JemC]

I'm just trying to figure out why people are so against a Cash Shop...................... -snip-.

Because the content will appear in the cash shop not in the game as an event or reward. You will buy what you want instead of work for it in game. It does not matter if SE uses the money well. It does not matter if the cash shop item is pay to win or not. Take Fantasia. It could have been an event item or quest but now...

I have already paid box and I continue to pay sub faithfully. If I wanted to be nickel and dimed to death I would go back to a f2p.

[HakuroDK]

Because the content will appear in the cash shop not in the game as an event or reward. You will buy what you want instead of work for it in game. It does not matter if SE uses the money well. It does not matter if the cash shop item is pay to win or not. Take Fantasia. It could have been an event item or quest but now...

But that's not an argument I can understand, because you have items out there like the CE items, the pre-order items, the OST items, the Veteran Rewards, and you can't earn any of those items in the game normally through work. You have to pay money for those items. How is that different from what a Cash Shop would do?

[Amberion]

Snip.

Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded. And as for you being an RPer, I really only know what your posts said. And in those, yes it seemed to be hypocritical of you. At least does to me, maybe I just interpret your post in a way you didn't mean..

And your other posts where like this quote:

Like I said, as long as it's flooded with stuff that doesn't increase stats or unlock dungeons, quests, and other related content

It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

[HakuroDK]

Pot kettle was in regards to your post saying someone was close-minded.

I'll explain myself.

The person I called closed-minded outright refused to hear anything on the subject of a cash shop, immediately calling it bad, and told someone that, if they like a cash shop so much, they can go somewhere else.

The textbook definition of being closed-minded is: obstinately resistant to argument or to unfamiliar or unwelcome ideas. Source: Merriam-Webster


Which, on the subject of the definition of closed-mindedness, it is often used out of context of its actual meaning to refer to anything that disagrees with anyone else regardless of how well they listen to the opposing viewpoint, much like the word irony is often used to define a coincidence rather than its actual definition which refers to something happening contrary to or despite certain conditions dictating otherwise.

Not once was I ever closed-minded about anything. All I have ever stressed since the start is that I lack the understanding as to why a Cash Shop is such a bad thing, and only one person during this whole argument has ever given me a valid argument against cash shops. I even liked his post, quoted it, and said "This is how you argue your point." A closed-minded person would NEVER acknowledge someone who disagrees with them as having a valid point.

It looks like you are OK with it as long as it's not related to combat.

If you'll notice, while I said dungeons (which are, indeed, related to combat), I also mentioned quests and other related content, which could be pretty much everything from combat to crafting to gathering to even dancing, as a few quest chains in 2.2 have done. I don't think content that tells a story should be locked to anyone. I only made the distinction to dungeons because, if I were to say "I don't want content that increases stats or unlocks content", people would automatically assume, for some reason, that I thought that buying any cash shop item would "unlock" it as "content", and I wanted to avoid that at whatever cost, but apparently, I still got misunderstood. Again.

Not better, but they lock a style behind a paywall. Meaning you have to pay cash to RP it.

Now I'm normally one who gets obsessed with vanity-related stuff, but with this... is how someone looks such a barrier to RP? Because other than certain FCs who have a dress code, I don't really get that. And if you're thinking about things like approachability, that's not it either. I'm on Balmung, an RP server. Every week or so, I wander into the Quicksand in Ul'dah and take a seat, wearing my normal vanity (seen in my sig below). Not a single time did I ever get approached by anyone ever to start an RP. Probably because I'm a Roegadyn and people tend to be more fond of approaching scantily-clad Miqo'te or any non-Roe female characters than anyone who looks even remotely interesting, but that's just my point of view.

I just don't feel like you've proven your point to me at all.