Cash shops: Whats wrong with you?

[HakuroDK]

We are both on balmung i dont see these server problems you are speaking about also: you dont see a problem with cash shop, great! but so many other people do that if SE actually did it the game would probably die

I don't think you're quite right, let me explain on a point-by-point basis.

First, the server issues. I have probably a 15% chance that my game will crash on teleport. Whether that is a server thing or a game glitch, I lack the credentials to say which is which. However, I do know that there are a number of folks on Balmung that I have run with, including myself personally, who has suffered from the dreaded 90k error and got booted from the game. That has happened to me a large number of times, and at least twice, I have been booted to the lobby, only to get hit with a 2001 lobby error as my game forcequits on me. Those are observations I've had, and I am aware that game experiences vary. But the fact of the matter is that the reason that we do not have private housing, and that GC housing is limited (and was stupid expensive at the start) is because the servers are not exactly optimal for handling housing and are in a dire need of upgrading. That I know for a fact because Yoshi has gone on record to say that multiple times.

Second, the cash shop. Like I said, as long as it's flooded with stuff that doesn't increase stats or unlock dungeons, quests, and other related content, then I think a cash shop is fine. Who does it hurt when people can buy Fantasias? Or if there are exclusive sets of Level 50 "All Classes" gear with zero stats on it. Like, say... a SOLDIER 1st Class set that makes a character dress up like Cloud from FFVII or something. I just don't see how that's necessarily gamebreaking other than for bitter immersion-purists who spend their off-RP hours whining about people with Lightning hair.

I'm just trying to understand your point of view while trying to get you to understand mine, that's all.

[Rose_Vilehart]

*snip*

Yeah the server thing is probably just you, i dont have those problems and i just talked to everyone in my fairly large FC nobody else has any problems with the server either.

Paying extra money for content that should already be in our SUB BASED mmo is just no
that and again, im seriously going all in and saying if they included a cash shop SE would lose over half thier sub base
ran out of posts
@Karnyboy
and we cant have those in game for free because?
you just want to spend money to feel special

[HakuroDK]

Yeah the server thing is probably just you, i dont have those problems and i just talked to everyone in my fairly large FC nobody else has any problems with the server either.

Paying extra money for content that should already be in our SUB BASED mmo is just no
that and again, im seriously going all in and saying if they included a cash shop SE would lose over half thier sub base

Well I respectfully disagree, so I guess we're not going to come to an understanding.

I just know that FFXIV needs better servers and I want to give money to them so they can get better servers, and other than maxing out my sub time whenever I can, a cash shop seems like the only way I can do that without being a millionaire and buying stock in the company. But that's my viewpoint. I don't agree with yours, but I'll respect it all the same.

[Karnyboy]

Yeah the server thing is probably just you, i dont have those problems and i just talked to everyone in my fairly large FC nobody else has any problems with the server either.

Paying extra money for content that should already be in our SUB BASED mmo is just no
that and again, im seriously going all in and saying if they included a cash shop SE would lose over half thier sub base

I think ultimately you're missing the point. Many of us who are pro-cash shop don't want it to be a requirement to play the game at its fullest. supporters of the CS ideal want it to be spice that adds flavor but not be something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward.

[skaterger]

I think ultimately you're missing the point. Many of us who are pro-cash shop don't want it to be a requirement to play the game at its fullest. supporters of the CS ideal want it to be spice that adds flavor but not be something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward.

The irony is that there are F2P games out there with a cash shop that are NOT P2W. *Cough Rift cough*. They sell vanity items, stash space, gear and armor that are not top tier (think CT gear). These are exactly the items that pro cash shop players are advocating since they do not "break" the game and "something you HAVE to buy in to ever to play the game from 1-50 and onward." But think about it, why would I play FF14, a P2P game when I can play RIFT, a F2P game if I have to deal with a cash shop in both games. The obvious answer is that these additional benefits are covered under our subscription and any additional content they want to produce should be earned by players through quests or gameplay and not the cash shop.

Excuse me for being crude but instead of telling us how we should pander to cash shops, why don't you do yourself a favor by saving $12 monthly and go play a non P2W F2P game like rift since that is what you seem to be asking for.

[HakuroDK]

snip

Not gonna lie, but that sounds kinda mean-spirited and closed-minded. "If you want this feature in this game that I don't like, go play this other game that has that feature and stop bothering us with it." is all I'm hearing. Maybe you could explain it to me better in a reply if I'm not getting the message there, but I just don't see any legitimate downside to a non-P2W cash shop, especially when there are those of us who want to contribute to the game's success more than we already are.

[skaterger]

Not gonna lie, but that sounds kinda mean-spirited and closed-minded. "If you want this feature in this game that I don't like, go play this other game that has that feature and stop bothering us with it." is all I'm hearing. Maybe you could explain it to me better in a reply if I'm not getting the message there, but I just don't see any legitimate downside to a non-P2W cash shop, especially when there are those of us who want to contribute to the game's success more than we already are.

Yeah like I said that was crude and kind of a low blow and I apologize if it offended anyone.

You are already indirectly contributing to the game's success by subbing every month aren't you? If you want to do more, you can make a personal donation I'm sure SE wouldn't reject that The biggest problem with the cash shop is that many players are uncomfortable with the idea of one and it can push many players over the edge and do more harm than good and I'm sure we would not like to see it come to that. Let me give you another example, Wow's blizzard store. Initially, they only had QOL things like name changes and server transfer but not long after they added vanity things like pets and mounts and unsurprisingly these mounts were much better looking than the ones that came in the game. What this did was segregate those that could afford/wanted the mount and those that could not/did not want to. It also led to a loss of confidence in the company as players wondered if in subsequent patches, the nicest items would only come from the cash shop.

I'm not making this up as the evidence is all in the Wow forums around the year 2010-2011. Many players were pissed at that time but thought that was the furthest that blizzard would go but lo and behold, they now have added a level 90 boost in their cash shop. Would you consider that P2W? I would say so. Objectively a cash shop might not be such a bad thing, but player's experiences with other f2p games might cause a stigma which would casue them to leave should a cash shop ever materialize in this game. I would very likely leave if a cash shop was ever implemented.

[Amberion]

Bunch of stuff.

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

[Skull_Angel]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

Crafters not being able to make every vanity item would be a small issue if they had access to recipes that were more comparable to raid level (doesn't have to be equal) gear. Currently this is one of the biggest issue for crafters, another being the ease of acquisition of equivalent non-crafted gear for players.

RPers wanting in-game access to vanity is a very valid point though, thanks for bringing that up.

[HakuroDK]

Pot, meet kettle. You are OK with CS as long as it does not effect your game style. Yet don't care if it has effect on any one who plays for differently reasons then raiding.

Let's say you have this RPer or crafter that don't do any end-game fighting. To him, Potion of Doom +8 would have minimal effect, but for a raider it would be p2w.

But I guess that only a raiders opinion should matter in a roleplaying game?

You are making a LOOOT of inaccuracies and assumptions here, broski.

First, "pot, meet kettle" is an expression referring to hypocrisy. Being okay with something and not caring about something are almost literally the same thing, which is the very antithesis of being a hypocrite.

Second, it's not hypocritical of me to say that I don't think a cash shop is gamebreaking because you assume that I'm a raider and I don't care about roleplayers or crafters, because it's a wildly inaccurate and downright false assumption. Roleplaying is actually my preferred style of gameplay. If you want, I can actually link you to my Hydaelyn RP Community profile (which, in fairness, has not been updated in a while). I even belong to the Order of the Sword and Rose FC, which is a well-known RP FC.

Third, gear that amplifies stats would affect crafters and gatherers just as much as it would affect raiders. They all rely on stats.

Fourth, Roleplayers--at least decent people who are roleplayers--don't criticize or judge others OOC for how they dress, and especially when it would come to various articles of Cash Shop clothing, all it would do is give some variety, if anything, to the appearance of a character and would have absolutely no advantage whatsoever to that person's personality, backstory, RP style, character interactions, or anything else. In fact, saying that roleplayers wearing cash shop items are somehow better than those that don't wear cash shop items just seems silly to me.

Never make assumptions, especially when trying to say how bad something you don't like is. All it ends up doing is make you look like a dick, and no one wants to see that in public.