Death Penalty

[Physic]

wow I hope you're trolling, what death penalty? waiting 3 whole minutes? give me a break. as people have stated there are a lot of mmos that had REAL death penalties such as losing xp. These games arent archaic, don't be stupid. FFXIV's death penalty is one of the easiest on the market, you dont even have to run to your corpse to pick up your stuff like every other modern WoW clone out there. there's always gonna be some noob crying about something I suppose. Even if the vast majority agrees that it's a non-issue. You should be penalized for dying, MAYBE YOU'LL PLAY SMARTER THEN AND NOT FIGHT SOMETHING A LOT HIGHER LVL THAN YOU DERP. This is to prevent you zerging your way through a leve/quest, in which you would be able to kill something you normally wouldnt be able to by getting it to half health, dying, then immediately running back to the mob to finish it off. Find something RELEVANT to cry about.

zerging doesnt help much with SP, if you die, and it has half hp it will give you half sp.

like i said the penalty is fine, but im not for the run to corpse exp loss etc other penalties that many games used to have

[akisato]

uhh i death warped in FFXI, i just had a class i didnt care about. And why should death matter when it doesnt matter. Dying in town by drinking a poison potion really should be the same as fighting some epic god?

death penalties dont even make sense, it ends up usually being a time sink by the end of the game, because any content worth being entertaining end game, should have a chance of killing you. So if your designing a game knowing that you will kill people (hello dynamis suicide pulls and NM with Death spells) then why are you going to turn around and tell them they have to go level up for 10% more of their tnl because they suck so bad that they played exactly as they were supposed to.

I never thought of it like this but your right. its quite silly to send ppl to do thing that you know that will kill them than make them work the exp back.

[Airget]

lol Dynamis death pulls are a concept created by lowmanning. If you actually went in with a full group i doubt one would still have to use sacrifice pulls to clear dynamis but it's impossible to prove now with the recent changes to dynamis. As for the death spell I will agree with that, it's such a cheap douche move that seems impossible to evade, and I doubt the DL gear even adds 1% resist to it lol.

As for death penalty, this game is a fricking joke when it comes to it lol. While I actually did like yoshida's explanation for why they chose to do it the way they did it. While sure chance at xp loss and such does teach you to be more patient it can also be a discouraging way to push people away from actually exploring.Though in the environment like XIV atm there really isn't to much to explore, while the game does have beautiful zones there really isn't a full sense of exploration to be had just yet, at least imo.

I'm not sure if this Death penalty was mentioned but an old game that still runs Dark Ages, not sure if they still use the same death penalty but it was:
-lose xp (no cap either so if that level was normally 500k tnl it's possible to go to 2mil tnl if you die enough times lol)
-obtain a scar (basically a mark showing how many times you died)
-enchanted gear is ripped off of you (any enhanced gear is destroyed)

Though if you were playing with others you were given a window in which you could bring them back from the brink of death so there was an incentive to party play lol.

But ya there's this one game called Shaiya while the concept they set in place is interesting sadly the game itself feels dull lol

http://shaiya.aeriagames.com/guide/modes

Bascically you're able to set your personal difficulty based on how you want to play. Well the above link explains but basically it sets a tone for casual to in between and hardcore gamers, which is pretty neat, an MMO that lets you choose your personal difficulty and still play with those around you.

In XIV terms I could see something like
Easy---- no exp loss, 3 min weakness timer, -no additional bonus-
Normal--xp loss, 5 min weakness timer, +2 attribute boost per level
Hard----xp loss, 10 min weakness timer, +5 attribute boost per level, effected by instant death abilities

Simple cleancut and gives players the option of how they wish to play rather then playing under one ruleset. While the above is prolly something SE will never consider it would be neat if there was some possibility like that lol.

[Kallera]

I never thought of it like this but your right. its quite silly to send ppl to do thing that you know that will kill them than make them work the exp back.

Both of you left out the fact that at that level where you are facing said mobs with the Death Spell/sacrifice pulls and the like, you have(or should have) Items with reraise/Reraise II, as well as mages with Raise II/III, which can negate the majority/all of the exp loss incurred. so no, its not bad game design, "playing exactly as you are supposed to" means going in prepared for what you need to do.

[geniusprime]

Dark Age is the first MMO I have played. It was quite entertaining. Shaiya has a pretty interesting concept. The ultimate mode reminds me of Steel Battalion. It would interesting to see if anyone plays it in that mode. I don't quite understand how the forming of parties would work. You would either have to play with folks that are on the same difficulty or run the risk of playing with someone on a lower difficulty where the penalties are significantly less making it more risky to party with them.

[Physic]

Both of you left out the fact that at that level where you are facing said mobs with the Death Spell/sacrifice pulls and the like, you have(or should have) Items with reraise/Reraise II, as well as mages with Raise II/III, which can negate the majority/all of the exp loss incurred. so no, its not bad game design, "playing exactly as you are supposed to" means going in prepared for what you need to do.

you still lose exp, and in some of the harder areas you cant always get a whm to ressurect you without endangering the run/wasting time. no exp was 0 loss, i can tell you right now, no matter how you slice it eventually you end up running out of exp, and they had to go relevel thier classes and rebuild buffer. I was in the party with them thats purpose was to get their exp back.

You can defend it if you want, but the fact of the matter is your just arguing on how much SP they should lose for correctly performing their job to the best of their ability, and saving everyone else time/giving people more option for drops.

Its a stupid design, lets be honest. Imagine if an offline game made you lose exp everytime your charachters died, then gave bosses instant kill moves, and strategies for completing the area that required you die, people would be pissed. You can only penalize death greatly if you make content that never requires you to die, whereby dying can only occur if you mess up.

[Griss]

ah this thread is hilarious. keep going need something to entertain me.

[mmk]

i remember playing games where they took 10% of the total exp youve gained from you when you died and a 10% chance to loose each piece of equipment you were wearing along with 100% chance to loose everything in your inventory

through level like 1-30 when you had only gained maybe 1 million exp it was ok, it would only take like 100k exp from you (which was maybe 3 hours to get) but when you got to the 90s and had 4 billion experience you would loose weeks, sometimes months of work

level cap? what did you need that for? you were never getting past level 100 because of the amount of time you loose when you die

i never even noticed the exp loss in ffxiv lol, its so small

[Carzilla]

play FFXI then talk

[Kallera]

you still lose exp, and in some of the harder areas you cant always get a whm to ressurect you without endangering the run/wasting time. no exp was 0 loss, i can tell you right now, no matter how you slice it eventually you end up running out of exp, and they had to go relevel thier classes and rebuild buffer. I was in the party with them thats purpose was to get their exp back.

You can defend it if you want, but the fact of the matter is your just arguing on how much SP they should lose for correctly performing their job to the best of their ability, and saving everyone else time/giving people more option for drops.

Its a stupid design, lets be honest. Imagine if an offline game made you lose exp everytime your charachters died, then gave bosses instant kill moves, and strategies for completing the area that required you die, people would be pissed. You can only penalize death greatly if you make content that never requires you to die, whereby dying can only occur if you mess up.

Imagine? I've played games harder than that, Lemmings and Shin Megami Tensei come to mind. what, were you expecting people to be so angry as to fold up their arms and forswore gaming? no, they were fun, they were addictive. You want to know WHY there are people that will defend difficulty in games? because its challenging, and its addictive, both of which are needed in a MMO's success. So Someone "gets pissed", what do they do? Some stamp their feet and go play SS4 on easy difficulty, others look up how to get better at the game that eludes them, still others immediately dive back in for another go and some do some chores and work, but the game is still there. You want fans and population in your games, you need to make them come, and KEEP THEM THERE. There's a reason why games like Pac Man and Chess are still being sold today. Challenge and addictive are two words that this game needs, Square can do this and still keep the casual approach.